alam nyo ba ang tunay na relihiyon???>> [Sitemap]

Rudie

12th Dec '07 Wed, 06:36

Base sa meaning - Religion is a fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a group of people.
These set of beliefs concern the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, and involve devotional and ritual observances. They also often contain a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Base sa meaning mahirap idefine kung sinu ang tunay at hinde.

Pero eto yung founding dates ng mga religion.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8186/52297366mq8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

RTP

Tama ang table mo tungkol sa relihiyon sa buong mundo at saka yung definition. Sa Abrahamic religion iisa lang ang puno. Yan ay ang relihiyong Judaism. Pero ang mas malapit sa Judaism ay ang Islam. Ibig kong sabihin nito yung mga ritual. Ang Christianity ay lumalayo sa Judaism kasi yung unang mga Kristyano ay gusto nilang agawin ang relihiyong Judaism sa mga Hudeo, na ang sabi ng turo na 'ang batas daw ni Moses ay natigil na raw pagdating ni Kristo'. Samakatuwid, 'out' na ang mga hudeo. Halimbawa ko na pina-alis nila ang mga hudeo ay ang pag 'depict' sa mga pagdadamit ng mga apostoles. Ang mga apostoles ay nakadamit sa style na Griego at hindi hudeo. Even the face of Jesus we see today is a depiction of the face of Zeus the Greek god. Kaya itong hidwaan na ito ay isang dahilan na... 'The bible was corrupted by the early christians to deprive the Jews of their salvation.' Ang 'climax' sa hidwaan na ito ay yung annihilation of the 6 million Jews by Hitler during WW II.

The late pope Paul VI asked for forgiveness for what Christians had done to the Jews.

AnmlstcBhvr

12th Dec '07 Wed, 09:25

Christianism. am a protestant. wala sa relihiyon yan. sa sariling paniniwala talaga makikita ang tunay na relihiyon.

langbalutdito

12th Dec '07 Wed, 09:29

no such thing as true religion.

ravnstock7

12th Dec '07 Wed, 09:41

Sabi nga: Truth is relative. What is true to you may not be true for me, or anybody else. Basta kung ano ang pinaniniwalaan mo, as long as ala kang tinatapakang iba at paniniwala ng iba, keep on believing. :pray:

RTP_78

12th Dec '07 Wed, 17:18

Probably there is also a wrong belief but you should have a common base as guide. Like for Christian there basis of belief is the Bible and for other Religion like Islam they base on Quran.

In states they are allowed to divorce and in the Philippines it’s not allowed why cause we have different sets of laws. If we have only one set of law or we have a "basis" then we can say who's right or who’s wrong.

Unfortunately we do not have a common base for religion. So Muslim can not say Christian have wrong belief and vise versa cause they are using a different reference or basis. One uses Quran and other uses the Bible. All other religion too has there own sets of belief which are base on custom and tradition.

I agree with ravnstock7 to give comments on other belief is disrespectful. You can give comment as long as you’re staying in one organization with the same religion and with the same reference or basis.

aiah_87

12th Dec '07 Wed, 17:26

debatable to tol... :slap:

Rudie

13th Dec '07 Thu, 08:50

You are right! There should be a common base as a guide. In the 3 Abrahamic religions... ang guide nito ay ang biblia, yung sinasabi sa Judaism na 'Torah' sa old testament. Sa islam, base po ang pagka sulat sa koran sa Torah kasi nandoon po yung pinanggalingan nang mga muslim na si Ishmael na anak ni Abraham at ni Hagar. Noong araw po gusto ni Muhammad na maging isa siya sa mga propeta sa biblia kaya itinuro niya sa mga muslim to pray facing Jerusalem... Noong hindi siya tinggap ng mga hudeo itinuro na naman niya to pray facing Mecca.

Sa kristyanismo, ang paniniwala ay base din sa biblia sa old testament. Sa old testament kasi ang kristo na tinutukoy dyan ay isang tao. Katulad halimbawa si Cyrus the Great na nag-save sa hudeo from slavery in Babylon. Para sa mga hudeo Kristo si Cyrus the Great. Sa biblia ang hula ni Cyrus the Great ay 'ibong mandaragit'. Pero sa mga Iglesia ni Kristo itinuro po na si Felix Manalo yung ibong mandaragit.

Ngayon noong isinusulat na ang biblia ng mga kristyano itinuturo na doon na si kristo ay Dios. At ang turo sa mga utos ng Dios sa unang tipan ay natigil na pagdating ni Kristo. Bakit nagka ganito? Dahil yung mga hentil na convert ni Pablo ay nanggaling sa mga Griego at hindi nila kaya sundin ang mga tradisyon ng mga hudeo. Yung mga Griego mga idol worshippers, pork eaters, does believe in the Jewish sabbath, circumcision and at iba pang mga tradisyon.. Kaya di ba ang new testament ay originally nakasulat sa Griego. Gusto ng mga Griego baguhin ang paniwala ng mga hudeo.

jayem

14th Dec '07 Fri, 17:38

tama, kanya-kanyang respetuhan ng paniniwala pero kung sa tingin mo eh dapat akayin ang isang tao dahil alam mong mali ang paniniwala niya lalo na kung ang basehan ay ang bibliya eh dapat lang siguro na hikayatin natin sila at dapat lang na ipaliwanag natin ang mali ng religion base sa bibliya, if you could remember a verse from the bible ang sabi dun hanapin mo ang tamang daan, pagkakaalam ko sinabi pa dun na makipot yung daan na yun.

on the other hand, sinugo si juesus para tubusin ang mga tao sa kasalanan di ba, nung panahon na bago pa dumating si kristo maraming kalikuan ang ginagawa ng mga tao noon, kaya magmula nung nagturo si kristo yung mga ibang rule o batas noon ay binago na, kaya nga hindi lahat sa lumang tipan ay dapat ng sundin, dati bawal kumain ng baboy kapag biyernes ba o bawal talaga kumain pero nung dumating si kristo itinuro niya na bawal kumain ng dugo at ng mga hayop na binigti, tinanggal na rin ang ikapu pinalitan yun ng handugan na bukal sa loob.

Si Kristo naman ay nagkatawang tao, naging diyos siya ulit nung mamatay ang kanyang katawang tao.

ang nangyari nung pagkamatay ni kristo ay nagpatuloy ang iglesia niya hanggang sa dumating ang panahon na niliko ito ng apostolika romana, even catholic church have their own book na nagpapatunay nun.

if we will just investigate you will see the big difference and you will know what is the real religion. some may say na walang tamang relihiyon pero my question is bakit nagtayo si kristo ng iglesia niya? kung wala ka dapat kaaniban, hindi ba sinabi sa bibliya na hanapin niyo si kristo, pano natin hahanapin? sa pamamagitan ng iglesia na ang itinuturo ay galing sa bibliya.

siguro question ko na lang is, bakit nagtayo si kristo ng iglesia niya kung wala naman palang tamang relihiyon?

RTP_78

14th Dec '07 Fri, 18:50

In my own personal opinion every church has its own doctrine.
Every doctrine has its own basis, where it was derived from.

In my post http://www.symbianize.com/showthread.php?t=23580&page=2
There were two major events, the time of Constantine and at the time of Martin Luther. You will see how Christianity was modified through-out the course of history and Christianity just branch-out according to individual’s interpretation of the Bible and mostly base on its own personal interest. Church doctrines are complicated things unless you personally read the Bible, you would not know.

In the last paragraph of the post…

“The only solution for those who would today seek the true Bible faith is to read and obey the Holy Scriptures. There you will find the pure faith and the only correct teachings, uncorrupted by the errors that Constantine and others brought into the Christian Church more than a thousand years ago.”

Bottom line is the “Truth”. Which religion has it? Probably some of would say your religion is the true religion… cause you follow the teachings of the Bible, if you are sure without a single contention from other groups then it’s good, it’s ok but, but, if someone or some groups disagree then how would know? they surely base their beliefs on Bible too? This contention explains that variation in the interpretation of the Bible, who interpreted it correctly. In this case, you have to study it by yourself. In the end it is you who will discover the truth; other people will not discover it for you. If you research accordingly you will find. Do not be convinced because your priest, pastor, rabbi or your minister gave you some verses and extract a thousand explanations about. I could give you a thousand verses now which do not conflict my religion but would you believe me? It’s all up to you if you would seek the truth, you'll find it. Start from Genesis and see how it goes.

Rudie

15th Dec '07 Sat, 05:21

Rudie

15th Dec '07 Sat, 06:39

RTP opined:

Quote--In my own personal opinion every church has its own doctrine.
Every doctrine has its own basis, where it was derived from.

In my post http.......deleted....deleted......

“The only solution for those who would today seek the true Bible faith is to read and obey the Holy Scriptures. There you will find the pure faith and the only correct teachings, uncorrupted by the errors that Constantine and others brought into the Christian Church more than a thousand years ago.” --Unquote.

Reply:

I agree with you that every church has its own doctrine but Christianity's doctrine derive from Judaism. Judaism's doctrine derive from the bible and Christianity says that Judaism is wrong? How can Christianity say that their doctrine is true and Judaism is not?

It's easy to say that you only read the bible from Genesis to Revelation and you will know truth. You will never know the truth if you will not make a parallel reading of history. For example Irenaeus the bishop of Lyons when he compiled the bible, those other books that he believed not to be inspired by God, he burned it. The four gospels, if you try to scrape the surface, you will find it written after the death of Paul not by the people who witnessed the life of Christ on earth but by the Greek in the Roman empire.

RTP_78

15th Dec '07 Sat, 11:47

I agree with you that every church has its own doctrine but Christianity's doctrine derive from Judaism. Judaism's doctrine derive from the bible and Christianity says that Judaism is wrong? How can Christianity say that their doctrine is true and Judaism is not?

- Did I mention "Christianity says that Judism is wrong hmmmm?":pray:

It's easy to say that you only read the bible from Genesis to Revelation and you will know truth. You will never know the truth if you will not make a parallel reading of history.

- Ofcourse additional supplimentary book is ok, it is neccessary, what I'am just saying is and I will repeat it again cause you might have miss the point, "no one can tell you what is the truth is for you to find out". No religion out there will accept that they teach wrong things. So study...

Aldzel

15th Dec '07 Sat, 12:03

igalang nalang natin ung paniniwala ng iba.... db? pero para sakin... wla nMn tlgang religion ehh.... basta ako wlang religion... pero kilala ko si GOD... un ang sakin

jayem

15th Dec '07 Sat, 13:43

JM asked;

siguro question ko na lang is, bakit nagtayo si kristo ng iglesia niya kung wala naman palang tamang relihiyon?

Reply:

Palagay ko si Kristo ay hindi nagtayo ng kanyang relihiyon. Ang itinayo niya ay yung 'iglesia' niya. Hindi po ibig sabihin nito relihiyon. Ang ibig sabihin ng 'iglesia' ay community o grupo, ngayong panahon na ito tatawagin natin to na barkada. Ang barkada niya ay tinawag nyang Nazorites.

Ganito po yun... Ang nag-imbento kasi ng Kristyanismo ay yon si Sn. Pablo. Siya po ay na-kumberte siya pagka kristyano 3 taon pagkatapos nang namatay si Kristo. Sabi po taga-usig daw siya ng mga Kristyano. Pero 3 taon pagkatapos nang namatay si Kristo ay wala pa pong mga Kristyano. Samakatuwid si Sn. Pablo ang nag-imbento ng Kristyanismo. Ang kuwento nga na-kumberte siya 'on the road to Damascus' kasi uusigin na naman niya yung mga Kristyano sa Damascus, e tatlong taon pagkamatay ni Kristo wala pa pong Kristyano sa Damascus.

Si Sn. Pablo nag-umpisa ng ebanghelyo ng Kristyanismo at inumpisahan din niya ang pagsulat ng mga epistolario niya niya noong taong 48 AD at natapos noong 58-60 AD at namatay siya sa taong 60-65 AD. Pagkatapos nang buhay ni Pablo ay ang kanyang mga sinulat ay dinagdagan at binawasan... Doon nga nag-umpisa yung dagdag/bawas... Hindi naman si GMA. Halimbawa yung 2nd Thessalonians sa biblia ay hindi sinulat ni Paul kundi sinulat ng ibang tao tapos idinagdag.

i agree with you, iglesia ang itinayo ni kristo. meaning iisang paniniwala iisang pananampalataya. kung ano man ang iniutos ni Kristo ay dapat sundin, walang lalabis walang kukulang kaya kailangan natin hanapin ang iglesia na gumagawa ng tama base sa utos ng diyos sa panahon natin ngayon. sabi nga ni kristo eh hanapin mo ang dating landas, sa landas na yun makipot, mahirap pumasok kaya eto tayo ngayon nahihirapan hanapin ang totoo.

we call it religion because it is the classification or a term/ proper term for a kind of "Group". we all christians believe in Christ pero di lahat tayo ay nakakasunod sa mga utos niya di ba, hindi lahat tayo ay naturuan ng tamang pananampalataya, si kristo ang ulo eh tayo ang katawan, si kristo ang ulo ang iglesia ang katawan. dapat tayo ay nasa iglesia upang maging isang katawan ng ulo. kailangan nating pumasok sa tamang iglesiya para tayo ay maligtas. bakit ko nasabing para tayo ay maligtas? kasi sa tamang iglesia itinuturo ang tamang aral ng diyos walang labis walang kulang.

now, mabalik ako sa religion. siguro eto ang almost exact definition of religion:

A religion is a set of common beliefs and practices generally held by a group of people, often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction. galing sa wikipedia

eto pa siguro ang isa:

Dictionary definitions:
Dictionaries have made many attempts to define the word religion:

Barns & Noble (Cambridge) Encyclopedia (1990):
"...no single definition will suffice to encompass the varied sets of traditions, practices, and ideas which constitute different religions."

The Concise Oxford Dictionary (1990):
"Human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience"

This definition would not consider some Buddhist sects as religions. Many Unitarian Universalists are excluded by this description. Strictly interpreted, it would also reject polytheistic religions, since it refers to "a" personal God."

Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary:
"a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith."

This is a curious definition because it does not require elements often associated with religion, such as deity, morality, worldview, etc. Also it requires that a person pursue their religion with enthusiasm. Many people identify themselves with a specific religion, but are not intensely engaged with their faith.

Webster's New World Dictionary (Third College Edition):
"any specific system of belief and worship, often involving a code of ethics and a philosophy."

This definition would exclude religions that do not engage in worship. It implies that there are two important components to religion:

one's belief and worship in a deity or deities
one's ethical behavior towards other persons

This dual nature of religion is expressed clearly in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) in Matthew 22:36-39:

"Teacher, what is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."

Qumran Bet, "A Community Striving to Come to the Pure Essence of the Worship of YHWH," cites definitions from an unknown dictionary: "religion (ri-lij'[uh]n) n. The beliefs, attitudes, emotions, behavior, etc., constituting man's relationship with the powers and principles of the universe, especially with a deity or deities; also, any particular system of such beliefs, attitudes, etc.
An essential part or a practical test of the spiritual life.
An object of conscientious devotion or scrupulous care: e.g. His work is a religion to him.
Obs. Religious practice or belief." 15

The Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry (CARM):
"An organized system of belief that generally seeks to understand purpose, meaning, goals, and methods of spiritual things. These spiritual things can be God, people in relation to God, salvation, after life, purpose of life, order of the cosmos, etc."

siguro ang dapat na title ng topic dito eh "Ano ang tamang Iglesia?"

jayem

15th Dec '07 Sat, 13:50

igalang nalang natin ung paniniwala ng iba.... db? pero para sakin... wla nMn tlgang religion ehh.... basta ako wlang religion... pero kilala ko si GOD... un ang sakin

with respect kapatid pero mali kasi na sabihin natin na igalang na lang natin yung paniniwala ng iba. pano kung ang paniniwala ng kapatid mo o ng kaibigan mo ay tama ang pumatay? hahayaan mo na lang ba siyang pumatay? rerespetuhin mo na lang ba yung paniniwala niya? kung alam mo ng mali ang ginagawa ng iba dapat mo siyang pagsabihan.

totoo na marami pa tayong dapat malaman sa bibliya at sa mga aral ng diyos, magsaliksik lang po tayong lahat.

by the way, di po ako nakikipagdebate or away with my previous posts. i'm just pointing out the truth, expressing whatever i need to. peace po tayo lahat dito, all we wanted is to have knowledge and to be learned. baka po kasi isipin ng iba na nakikipagaway ako. hehe. peace out. and i pray na sana in the end lahat tayo maliwanagan.

jayem

15th Dec '07 Sat, 13:53

RTP_78

15th Dec '07 Sat, 15:11

jayem

15th Dec '07 Sat, 18:05

Is it the church that teaches the truth? The doctrine? or the scripture itself.

If we talk about religion wheeewwwww... It's very complicated cause as what I have posted before "no religious belief will agree that they practice a wrong belief".

Even the meaning of religion is tricky cause some group define it to coincide with the concept of a true religion in terms of "organization". Like what we have read in the post above.

Have you read the following meaning of religion above?

- Old Latin word religio means "taboo, restraint." A deeper study discovers the word comes from the two words "re" and "ligare". Re is a prefix meaning "return," and ligare means "to bind;" in other words, "return to bondage."

Why it was not mentioned above I wondered?

What is bondage? in bondage of what? What does being bound or bonded mean? In a sense, it is "tied up", a "covenanted" or "bonded" to what? Church? Deity or God. Actually being bonded is a slave who is tied-up or bonded to his or her master in a relationship? A slave can not be bounded to an organization only to his master. Religion basically is a relationship with the Master, not with an institution or group. So now from the original meaning where the hell did the meaning of religion became the organized system of belief? The meaning was altered to incorporate it with religious organization. Like the word “Fuck” original meaning is to “copulate” or “to unite”, a sexual act. Now you can see in dictionaries it evolves cause people use it as a word to describe “to mess around”. Now it is incorporated in dictionaries also. The same thing with the word religion, it was modified to suite certain organization probably all religious belief so that they may exploit the word “True Religion” and eventually true church.

i even agree with your statement, we really don't need "religion" literally, it was classified nowadays as a sect or group. kapag tinanong mo ang isang tao, anong relihiyon mo? they will answer you "katoliko ako" iglesia ni cristo ako" "prtestante ako". meaning those churches are under what we called religion. tama, it means that religion is to tie back. it is the original latin meaning of it.

now we need these churches, we need to investigate their beliefs, are they teaching or preaching according to what it says from the bible? if you will listen to any preacher, wag muna maniwala, instead maginvestigate tayo kung tama ba yun? galing ba sa bibliya yun?

If we have already have a problem with the definition of religion how on earth would you find out which one is true? It’ll be a set of belief. Hayyyyyy… Isang word problema na ngayon sets of belief pa. Now we go “Church”, the never ending debate which is the true Church? Seek with-in! The most important thing is your relationship with God your Master. God did not command Adam and Eve to go church, nor Abraham or Isaac; He gave Moses commandments and practices for the Israelite to have covenant with God. I think it’s the most important thing and not the organization itself. It’s your relationship with your Master.
Niro

noong unang panahon kasi as you rely on the bible, may iisang paniniwala ang tao sa diyos hanggang sa dumating ang mga tao na nagpakaliko at gumawa ng sarili nilang paniniwala sa diyos. tama di inutos ng diyos na sumali si adan at eba sa relihiyon kasi that time iisang diyos lang sinusunod nila, dumating ang panahon na marami nang tao ang lumiko at gumawa ng sariling diyos, sinamba nila ang araw mga puno at kahit hayop pa nga, hanggang sa nagbigay ang diyos ng ten commmandments sa pamamagitan ni moises, di pa rin nasunod ng maraming tao hanggang sa isinugo na ng diyos ang kanyang anak, nang dumating si kristo sumama sa kanya ang maraming tao na naniniwalang siya ay sugo. nagturo ang kristo ng mga dapat na gawin, kung babasahin niyo sa new testament may mga utos noon na pinalitan na at iniukol sa panahon. sinabi pa ni kristo "sa ibabaw ng batong ito, itatayo ko ang aking iglesia" ang sumunod sa kanyang utos at gumawa ng loob ng diyos ay mabibilang sa kawan, inaari ng panginoon ang ganoong tao. sinasabi pa ng mga apostoles noon sa mga sulat nila "binabati ko ang iglesia na nasa corinto, o kahit anong iglesia pa na naitayo nila sa mundo. ibig sabihin lang na may ibang paniniwala pa ang ibang tao o ang sanlibutan na di kabilang sa iglesiang itinayo ni kristo. kaya nagkaroon na ng hidwaan sa mga paniniwala. nagamit ngayon ang salitang relihiyon, that is for us to tie back to god. how?find the true church. hanapin ang tamang iglesia na itinayo ni kristo, ang tamang iglesia ni kristo.

hayy... totoo na marami tayo dapat matutunan para malaman natinang tunay na iglesia, kalimutan mo ang relihiyon at hanapin natin ang tunay na iglesia. mahirap sabihin na kahit wala kang relihiyon ay maliligtas ka, paano ka maiga-guide kung wala kang relihiyon, eh kailangan mo nga bumalik sa diyos. hindi ba't iniutos ng diyos na magbalik-loob tayo sa kaniya? paano tayo babalik sa knya kung di natin alam kung nasan ang kawan niya? kaya dapat hanapin natin kung nasaan iyon. conflicting di ba? forget the religion as what we called group, instead find for the true church for us to have the true religion(to tie back to god), and for us to know that the true church will be our guide for us to tie/bond back(religion) to god.

RTP_78

15th Dec '07 Sat, 18:39

Ahem excuse me... you probably did get a wrong impression on my previous post... I didn't mention there that religion is not important. I don't want to offend anybody.

jayem

15th Dec '07 Sat, 18:57

Ahem excuse me... you probably did get a wrong impression on my previous post... I didn't mention there that religion is not important. I don't want to offend anybody.

yeah i know.. what i mean is i agree with your post, i just added up na hindi importante ang "religion" the meaning of it nowadays and not the "religion" which means to tie back, to make thing clear na rin.

sorry for that RTP, pasensya na po kung nakakasagasa na sa iba pero it is my urge to express what i've learned and if i'm wrong, you guys may just correct me.

peace out po, exchange of wisdoms lang po and please don't be offended. thanks

Rudie

16th Dec '07 Sun, 07:10

- Did I mention "Christianity says that Judism is wrong hmmmm?":pray:

- Ofcourse additional supplimentary book is ok, it is neccessary, what I'am just saying is and I will repeat it again cause you might have miss the point, "no one can tell you what is the truth is for you to find out". No religion out there will accept that they teach wrong things. So study...

RTP said:

Did I mention "Christianity says that Judism is wrong hmmmm?"

Reply:

Yes you did not say it! I said it because you said; "Every doctrine has its own basis, where it was derived from." The doctrine where Christianity is based or derived from is Judaism. For the last 1900 years Christians always assert that the Jews are wrong. I'll give you an example;

Supposing I come to the house of Mr. Juan De la Cruz and when I entered the house I found out that Mr. De la Cruz is out. I told his wife that beginning today you will be my wife and everything inside this house will be change according to my own decision. So when Mr. De la Cruz arrived he found out that his house is already changed.

I'm not going to ask you if what I did to Mr. Juan De la Cruz is wrong because I'm sure that you will say what I did to Mr. De la Cruz is very wrong.

My example is what the early Christians did to the Jews. Therefore Christians wanted to take away the religion of Judaism away from the Jews. In my opinion, I can say that Christianity bore not of the true religion, because Christianity rose out of hatred against the Jews.

The Christians' antagonistic attitude towards the Jews is reflected also in their early writings. Here are some of their opinions;

"Justin Martyr (c. AD 160) in speaking to a Jew said: "The Scriptures are not yours, but ours."

Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyon (c. AD 177) declared: "Jews are disinherited from the grace of God."

Tertullian (AD 160-230), in his treatise, "Against the Jews," announced that God had rejected the Jews in favor of the Christians."

In the fifth century, the burning question was: If the Jews and Judaism were cursed by God, then how can you explain their existence?

"Augustine tackled this issue in his "Sermon Against the Jews." He asserted that even though the Jews deserved the most severe punishment for having put Jesus to death, they have been kept alive by Divine Providence to serve, together with their Scriptures, as witnesses to the truth of Christianity. Their existence was further justified by the service they rendered to the Christian truth, in attesting through their humiliation, the triumph of the Church over the Synagogue. They were to be a "Witness people" - slaves and servants who should be humbled."

Rudie

16th Dec '07 Sun, 07:55

Sabi ni JM:

"i agree with you, iglesia ang itinayo ni kristo. meaning iisang paniniwala iisang pananampalataya. kung ano man ang iniutos ni Kristo ay dapat sundin, walang lalabis walang kukulang kaya kailangan natin hanapin ang iglesia na gumagawa ng tama base sa utos ng diyos sa panahon natin ngayon. sabi nga ni kristo eh hanapin mo ang dating landas, sa landas na yun makipot, mahirap pumasok kaya eto tayo ngayon nahihirapan hanapin ang totoo."

Sagot:

Ang sabi mo na noong itinayo ni Kristo ang kanyang iglesia ang ibig mong sabihin na "iisang paniniwala iisang pananampalataya".

Tanong:

Ano nga pala ang paniniwala ni Kristo? Naniniwala ba siya ng kristyanismo?

Alam mo kasi noong panahon ni Kristo 3 lang ang 'community' sa loob ng Judaism. Yung mga Paresiyo, mga Saduceo at mga Essenes. Itong mga Essenes ang suspetsa na dito napaloob ang 'community' ni Kristo. Samakatuwid wala pang mga Kristyano. kumo nga sinabi mo na; "hanapin mo ang dating landas, sa landas na yun makipot," Ito mahanap mo wala sa biblia kasi ang biblia bias documents yan para sa mga Kristyano. Si Kristo ay walang iniwan na sulat. Pero ang mga Essenes mayron, nakita ito nang madiskubre nila noong 1947 yung Dead Sea Scrolls. Nandoon yung sulat ng mga Essenes na 'The Community Rule' at mga kopya sa Lumang Tipan. Wala pang Bagong Tipan kasi ito ay sinulat na ng mga Kristyano.

RTP_78

16th Dec '07 Sun, 12:31

Sabi ni JM:
hanapin ang iglesia na gumagawa ng tama base sa utos ng diyos sa panahon natin ngayon.

Would it be more easier to say to seek God and obey His commandments rather than to raise a particular group which creates conflict among peolple?

Ano nga pala ang paniniwala ni Kristo? Naniniwala ba siya ng kristyanismo?

Is it me or it the question that makes my nose bleed....

For information lang po... Christianity from its root word "Christ" was a religion established base on "The Life and Teaching of Christ" and not derived from any other group.

kitong

16th Dec '07 Sun, 13:06

Sabi ni JM:
Ano nga pala ang paniniwala ni Kristo? Naniniwala ba siya ng kristyanismo?

Mejo naguluhan ako dito ah.. di naman po sa nagmamagaling pero parang ang gulo nitong tanong nyo.. sa tanong nyo po kasi parang lumalabas na ang Kristyanismo ay paniniwala na ng mga tao bago pa dumating si Hesus..

Di ba po ang Kristyanismo ay isang relihiyon na hango sa mga turo, sa buhay at sa mga mirakulo ni Hesus. So na-establish ang Kristyanismo long after mamatay si Hesus.

jmark

16th Dec '07 Sun, 13:08

agree ako dyan sa statement ni kitong..:salute:

Rudie

17th Dec '07 Mon, 05:53

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudie
Sabi ni JM:
hanapin ang iglesia na gumagawa ng tama base sa utos ng diyos sa panahon natin ngayon.

Would it be more easier to say to seek God and obey His commandments rather than to raise a particular group which creates conflict among peolple?

Sagot:

Dapat po ang sasagot po sa tanong mo ay si Jayem kasi, I was only quoting the opinion of Jayem. I'll try to tackle your second question.

RTP asked:

Is it me or it the question that makes my nose bleed....

For information lang po... Christianity from its root word "Christ" was a religion established base on "The Life and Teaching of Christ" and not derived from any other group.

Reply:

Did you not post here the table of the religions of the world? Did you not identify the 3 religions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity as Abrahamic religions? What do you mean by Abrahamic? It means that the 3 religions derived from the person Abraham? Who is the oldest of the 3 religions? Of course it's Judaism... Therefore Christianity and Islam are offshoots or it derived from Judaism.

Christ did not preach Christianity. Christ was a Jew. He preached the Torah. It was St. Paul who preached about Christianity. Paul was the founder of Christianity not Christ. Paul was a Hellenist-Jew who was not born in Jerusalem but in Tarsus.

Rudie

17th Dec '07 Mon, 06:21

Mejo naguluhan ako dito ah.. di naman po sa nagmamagaling pero parang ang gulo nitong tanong nyo.. sa tanong nyo po kasi parang lumalabas na ang Kristyanismo ay paniniwala na ng mga tao bago pa dumating si Hesus..

Di ba po ang Kristyanismo ay isang relihiyon na hango sa mga turo, sa buhay at sa mga mirakulo ni Hesus. So na-establish ang Kristyanismo long after mamatay si Hesus.

Sagot sa tanong:

Ang Kristyanismo po ay hango sa turo ni San Pablo. Wala pa pong ebidencia na may iniwan si Kristo na turo. Ang nakapagulo kasi nito e' sabi ni Pablo na, galing kay Kristo ang mga turo niya sa mga kristyano. Sa ebanghelyo kasi sinabi ni Kristo doon sa kanyang mga apostoles na ibalita nyo ang magandang balita sa sangkatauhan pero ang mga apostoles hindi naman nagbabalita kundi si Pablo.

Kaya ang kristyanismo ay paniwala ng tao pagkatapos mamatay si Kristo! At si Kristo ay isang Hudeo kaya kung nagturo man siya dito sa lupa di siyempre Hudaismo ang kanyang itinuro at hindi kristyanismo.

Tandaan ninyo to na ang 4 na ebanghelyo ay isinulat pagka tapos sa mga epistolario ni Pablo. Isinulat ito umpisa sa 80 to 140 AD. Bakit ito hindi nauna sa sulat ni Pablo samantalang ito ay tungkol sa buhay ni Kristo? Ang mga tao na sumulat sa ebanghelyo na si Luke at si Mark ay mga fictitious na mga tao ito. Bakit si Santiago na kapatid ni Kristo hindi sumulat sa talambuhay ni Kristo samantalang siya ang direct witness sa buhay ni Kristo. Saan na ngayon ang iba sa mga apostoles? Bakit hindi sila hindi naging prominente ang kanilang buhay sa pagsaksi nila kay Kristo?

Kaya kung balikan nga natin si Josephus mas kilala niya si John the Baptist kumpara kay Kristo. Ang pangalan ni John the Baptist sa sulat ni Josephus ay si 'Bannu the baptizer'. Pagdating sa biblia ang 'Bannu' ay binago sa pangalang 'John' kasi po yun daw ay ibig sabihin nyan ay 'water'.

RTP_78

17th Dec '07 Mon, 15:40

Quote:
Did you not post here the table of the religions of the world? Did you not identify the 3 religions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity as Abrahamic religions? It means that the 3 religions derived from the person Abraham?

Nosebleed ulit ako... Just a question? Catholic, Protestants, Iglesia, etc. belong to a religion called Christianity. Does it follows that Protestant, Iglesia and all other Christian Groups' teachings was derived from Catholic teaching because it is the oldest among the group? The same thing with Abrahamic religion. It simply means Abraham was a "part of their sacred history". Christianity by definition is a religion "centered" in the life and teaching of Jesus Christ. Islam on the another hand "originated" with the teachings of Muhammad.

Quote:
Ang Kristyanismo po ay hango sa turo ni San Pablo.

Well for me if Christianity was based on the teaching of Paul. I would not embrace Christianity and it should be named Paulism or Paulity not Christianity... I would repeat it again, if you have doubt Google it, "Christianity is a religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as depicted in the New Testament.

Quote:
Wala pa pong ebidencia na may iniwan si Kristo na turo. Ang nakapagulo kasi nito e' sabi ni Pablo na, galing kay Kristo ang mga turo niya sa mga kristyano. Sa ebanghelyo kasi sinabi ni Kristo doon sa kanyang mga apostoles na ibalita nyo ang magandang balita sa sangkatauhan pero ang mga apostoles hindi naman nagbabalita kundi si Pablo.

What do you call the "word" of Christ in the Bible "yung mga pulang verses para malinaw". Is it not an evidence of his teachings? If you do not believe it and you are saying your Christian, man no offense but you have some serious issues.

Quote:
At si Kristo ay isang Hudeo kaya kung nagturo man siya dito sa lupa di siyempre Hudaismo ang kanyang itinuro at hindi kristyanismo.

Then if it is your point would you agree with me that Judism is the "True religion" and not Christianity because even Christ himself as you said teaches Judaism.

Quote:
Ang mga tao na sumulat sa ebanghelyo na si Luke at si Mark ay mga fictitious na mga tao ito.

Again if this is your point we should not believe the Bible cause the people who wrote it are ficticious. From here we can establish now that Christianity is a false religion and Judaism is the correct one.

jayem

17th Dec '07 Mon, 16:46

Sabi ni JM:

Sagot:

Ang sabi mo na noong itinayo ni Kristo ang kanyang iglesia ang ibig mong sabihin na "iisang paniniwala iisang pananampalataya".

Tanong:

Ano nga pala ang paniniwala ni Kristo? Naniniwala ba siya ng kristyanismo?

Alam mo kasi noong panahon ni Kristo 3 lang ang 'community' sa loob ng Judaism. Yung mga Paresiyo, mga Saduceo at mga Essenes. Itong mga Essenes ang suspetsa na dito napaloob ang 'community' ni Kristo. Samakatuwid wala pang mga Kristyano. kumo nga sinabi mo na; "hanapin mo ang dating landas, sa landas na yun makipot," Ito mahanap mo wala sa biblia kasi ang biblia bias documents yan para sa mga Kristyano. Si Kristo ay walang iniwan na sulat. Pero ang mga Essenes mayron, nakita ito nang madiskubre nila noong 1947 yung Dead Sea Scrolls. Nandoon yung sulat ng mga Essenes na 'The Community Rule' at mga kopya sa Lumang Tipan. Wala pang Bagong Tipan kasi ito ay sinulat na ng mga Kristyano.

don't be offended dude but with your question, simply it's non-sense.

by the way, im sorry i was not able to login to this forum last weekend because im away from my computer.

anyway, you said that there is three community right? haven't you noticed on the bible or haven't you read a word "sanlibutan"? from there on, makikita mo na excluded yung mga tao na hindi kabilang sa kristiyanismo o sa iglesiang itinayo ni kristo nung panahon na yun. meaning that there is christianity. to answer your question

"Ano nga pala ang paniniwala ni Kristo? Naniniwala ba siya ng kristyanismo?"

don't be offended man, pero the answer to your question is simple. let's say, i established a church under my name, let's say Iglesia ni JM, the doctrines there should be based on what i teach or whatever i preach to people who believe me i am god. would you call my followers JM-ity? or JM-nity? or JMeans(like christianity) of course yes, they are following me as their god, now, when God the Father sends Jesus Christ and teach people and after his death, christians called themselves christians because they believe in Jesus Christ.

if you're going to ask me "Ano nga pala ang paniniwala ni Kristo?" well man, i think you should concentrate on the bible, read it carefully. you know what, i am not using any articls or any book of History to prove that Christianity is true, makabasa man ako ng history ng mundo eh ikinukumpara ko sa bible, katulad ng mga hula na naganap. with the type of your question, you are actually questioning your faith now.

mga kapatid, magsaliksik tayong mabuti sa bibliya at di niyo na kakailanganin pang ibang libro, siguro minsan oo para malaman niyo na naganap ang mga hula. tama di ba? napakakipot ng daan at iilan lang ang nakakapasok. pilitin po natin daanan ang tamang landas. :)

jayem

17th Dec '07 Mon, 17:14

Sagot sa tanong:

Ang Kristyanismo po ay hango sa turo ni San Pablo. Wala pa pong ebidencia na may iniwan si Kristo na turo.

kung hango sa turo ni Pablo, dapat pablism ang faith mo at di ka christian, si pablo ay nagturo ng mga aral na galing kay Kristo, plain and simple di ba. to further explain, kapag nagaral ka ng Education as your course in college halimbawa science, nakagraduate ka at naging professor, masasabi mo bang ang natutunan mo na itinuturo mo sa mga estudyante ay hango sa iyo? di ba galing yun sa natutuhan mo na itinuro na nang matagal na panahon?

Kaya ang kristyanismo ay paniwala ng tao pagkatapos mamatay si Kristo! At si Kristo ay isang Hudeo kaya kung nagturo man siya dito sa lupa di siyempre Hudaismo ang kanyang itinuro at hindi kristyanismo.

no offense bro, naliligaw ka na yata. si kristo ang nagturo ng mga aral o ng mga utos na dapat gawin ng mga tao, kaya kristiyanismo na maitatawag yun. sabi mo si kristo ay judeo, tama? ako ay pilipino, magturo ako ng aral ni kristo pilipinismo na ba ang tawag dun?

Tandaan ninyo to na ang 4 na ebanghelyo ay isinulat pagka tapos sa mga epistolario ni Pablo. Isinulat ito umpisa sa 80 to 140 AD. Bakit ito hindi nauna sa sulat ni Pablo samantalang ito ay tungkol sa buhay ni Kristo? Ang mga tao na sumulat sa ebanghelyo na si Luke at si Mark ay mga fictitious na mga tao ito. Bakit si Santiago na kapatid ni Kristo hindi sumulat sa talambuhay ni Kristo samantalang siya ang direct witness sa buhay ni Kristo. Saan na ngayon ang iba sa mga apostoles? Bakit hindi sila hindi naging prominente ang kanilang buhay sa pagsaksi nila kay Kristo?

Kaya kung balikan nga natin si Josephus mas kilala niya si John the Baptist kumpara kay Kristo. Ang pangalan ni John the Baptist sa sulat ni Josephus ay si 'Bannu the baptizer'. Pagdating sa biblia ang 'Bannu' ay binago sa pangalang 'John' kasi po yun daw ay ibig sabihin nyan ay 'water'.

IMHO, natatakot ako sa paniniwala mo!

jayem

17th Dec '07 Mon, 17:15

Kapatid na Rudie, if you don't mind, may i ask what is your religion?

kitong

17th Dec '07 Mon, 18:36

well said jayem..

mejo nakakatakot nga pag ganyan a.. hehe:)

Rudie

17th Dec '07 Mon, 20:20

Nosebleed ulit ako... Just a question? Catholic, Protestants, Iglesia, etc. belong to a religion called Christianity. Does it follows that Protestant, Iglesia and all other Christian Groups' teachings was derived from Catholic teaching because it is the oldest among the group? The same thing with Abrahamic religion. It simply means Abraham was a "part of their sacred history". Christianity by definition is a religion "centered" in the life and teaching of Jesus Christ. Islam on the another hand "originated" with the teachings of Muhammad.

Reply:

If Catholic is the oldest or original religion in Christianity... all other religious sects derived or came from Catholicism. Any Christian religion that secede away from Catholicism because of difference of opinion in the books of the New Testament is a religion derived or came from Catholicism. Even if Christianity centered its teaching in Jesus still it is Abrahamic because Jesus is nothing without the prophecy in the OT. The NT is the fulfillment of the OT according to Christianity.

Well for me if Christianity was based on the teaching of Paul. I would not embrace Christianity and it should be named Paulism or Paulity not Christianity... I would repeat it again, if you have doubt Google it, "Christianity is a religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as depicted in the New Testament.

Reply:

If Google puts its meaning of Christianity as a religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, it is because Christianity won the battle as a dominat religion in the world. In its early stage Christians were fed to the lions before they were recognized as the official religion of Rome.

What do you call the "word" of Christ in the Bible "yung mga pulang verses para malinaw". Is it not an evidence of his teachings? If you do not believe it and you are saying your Christian, man no offense but you have some serious issues.

Reply:

Yung pulang verses sa gospel ba ibig mong sabihin? May duda kasi yan e'... Alam mo bakit? Let's talk about the 4 gospels.... The gospels of Luke and Matthew is doubtful because the early church fathers [yung mga monk na katoliko] said that Luke and Matthew was written in 80-90 AD which are copies from the original Hebrew/Aramaic. [the language of the apostles] The church fathers were implying that there is a lost original gospel that cannot be found. But bible scholars said; If the lost gospel cannot be found, Luke and Matthew is a copy of the gospel of Mark.

Mark, the writer of the synoptic gospel is the interpreter of Peter. Mark recorded all the teaching Jesus from Peter according to Eusebius the bishop of Caesarea. His information came from an extant document from St. Papias. Eusebius information was also picked up by Tertullian and eventually reached Irenaeus the compiler of the bible. Mark recorded Peter's testimony of Jesus in Greek. Pasa-pasa na kuwento pala ang ebanghelyo ni Mark kaya may duda.

Yung kay John na ebanghelyo was written in a very fluent Greek. His gospel was written somewhere in 130-140 AD according to the aging system adapted by bible scholars. They believed that these years 130 to 140 AD John the Evangelist or John the Beloved [He is one of the apostles of Jesus.] is long dead already. The idea that he also wrote 'Revelation' while exiled in the island of Patmos is in doubt. The person who wrote Revelation was the Gnostic Cerinthus not John. The gospel of John was written in fluent Greek while Revelation was written in rough Greek. Dyan mahalata ng mga scholars ang pagkakaiba sa sulat.

All the 4 gospels were written 'pseudepigraphical'. Ibig sabihin may ibang taong sumulat. Ang duda ko sumulat nito ay yung mga monk na katoliko.

Then if it is your point would you agree with me that Judism is the "True religion" and not Christianity because even Christ himself as you said teaches Judaism.

Reply:

Put it this way... If it's man truthfulness to his religion then it's Judaism because of its originality.

Again if this is your point we should not believe the Bible cause the people who wrote it are ficticious. From here we can establish now that Christianity is a false religion and Judaism is the correct one.

Reply:

Do not believe it as the word of God because most of the bible narrative is allegorical. The OT story is based on the Jewish wandering in the desert. If your religion is bible based do not brag that you have the true religion by insulting other sects. Just pray to yourself.

jayem

17th Dec '07 Mon, 20:51

Reply:

Do not believe it as the word of God because most of the bible narrative is allegorical. The OT story is based on the Jewish wandering in the desert. If your religion is bible based do not brag that you have the true religion by insulting other sects. Just pray to yourself.

saan ka po kumukuha ng basis mo kapatid? sa mga history ba? baka lalo ka maligaw niyan.

rhodel29

17th Dec '07 Mon, 22:05

para sakin basta naging mabuti kang tao dito sa lupa at sinusunod yung mga mabubuti gawain..di na mahalaga kung anu relihiyon mo..

let say ganyan ang relihiyon mo, at sabi mo yan ang magliligtas sayo but yung mga gawain mo ay di kanais nais? palagay ba natin kakampihan tayo ng relihiyon na yun? para maligtas? siguro igalang na lang natin ang paniniwala ng bawat isa at gawin natin ang alam natin ay tama..:pray::peace:

RTP_78

17th Dec '07 Mon, 22:44

QUOTE:
Do not believe it as the word of God because most of the bible narrative is allegorical. The OT story is based on the Jewish wandering in the desert.

OK.. so Bible should not be the basis of this discussion. Cause like what I've said you can not argue unless you have the same basis...

QUOTE:
If your religion is bible based do not brag that you have the true religion by insulting other sects. Just pray to yourself.

So you said it yourself! Now you agree with me that,

"It'll be more easier to say to seek God and obey His commandments rather than to raise a particular group which creates conflict among peolple."

QUOTE:
If Google puts its meaning of Christianity as a religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, it is because Christianity won the battle as a dominat religion in the world.

huh?? Nosebleed ako ah.... So... if Islam won as the dominant religion in the world then Christianity would mean a religion centered on the life and teaching of Muhammed. Nice argument... Dugo ilong ko ah...

What I mean is "research it". I just use the word "google it" for it is famous phrase for conducting a research, its a research engine by the way in case you don't know. Since you do not believe in the Bible try to use google to search any topic of your interest, try to research for more information, I suggest you start with reading comprehension topics.

Rudie

18th Dec '07 Tue, 05:44

don't be offended dude but with your question, simply it's non-sense.

Reply:

You are thinking it that way because, I think you are a fundamentalist believer of the bible. Nagiging 'fanatic' ka kasi e'. My advice to you is to open your mind.

JM opined:

anyway, you said that there is three community right? haven't you noticed on the bible or haven't you read a word "sanlibutan"? from there on, makikita mo na excluded yung mga tao na hindi kabilang sa kristiyanismo o sa iglesiang itinayo ni kristo nung panahon na yun. meaning that there is christianity.

Reply:

Di excluded si Kristo at yung mga apostoles niya dahil hindi naman yun mga Kristyano. In the Jewish faith there were many Jews who wanted to be called the christ. They can build their own 'community' or church as long as it does not go in conflict with the Jewish religion.

JM opined

to answer your question;

"Ano nga pala ang paniniwala ni Kristo? Naniniwala ba siya ng kristyanismo?"

Reply:

Ang paniniwala ni Kristo ay Hudaismo. Siya ay member ng Jewish religion. Ang iglesia na itinayo niya ay pinangalanan niyang 'Nazorites' from the word Nazarenes. The Dead Sea Scrollls that was discovered in 1947contained the documents 'Community Rule', and it did not say that they were Christians.

JM opined:

don't be offended man, pero the answer to your question is simple. let's say, i established a church under my name, let's say Iglesia ni JM, the doctrines there should be based on what i teach or whatever i preach to people who believe me i am god. would you call my followers JM-ity? or JM-nity? or JMeans(like christianity) of course yes, they are following me as their god, now, when God the Father sends Jesus Christ and teach people and after his death, christians called themselves christians because they believe in Jesus Christ.

Reply:

When Jesus established the church or the community he did not teach Christianity to his followers but taught the Torah because he was Jewish. Christianity appeared after the death of Jesus. St. Paul is the inventor of Christianity. All the four gospels appeared only after the death of St. Paul. In the epistles of Paul contain all the teaching of Christianity. The primary objective of christianity is to takeover Judaism.

JM opined:

if you're going to ask me "Ano nga pala ang paniniwala ni Kristo?" well man, i think you should concentrate on the bible, read it carefully. you know what, i am not using any articls or any book of Historyto prove that Christianity is true, makabasa man ako ng history ng mundo eh ikinukumpara ko sa bible,[/COLOR]katulad ng mga hula na naganap. with the type of your question, you are actually questioning your faith now.

Reply:

Kaya nga ako nahirapan nakipagtalo sa inyo kasi I am using reasons while you are using faith. 'Reason may not have faith but faith alone is unreasonable.' Your proof that the bible is true without reading history is fundamentalism... it is because of your faith in your religion.

Yung mga hula dyan sa biblia pinagtukma-tukma na yan noong unang mga church fathers na sumulat sa biblia. Matalino din yung mga yun!

JM opined:

mga kapatid, magsaliksik tayong mabuti sa bibliya at di niyo na kakailanganin pang ibang libro, siguro minsan oo para malaman niyo na naganap ang mga hula. tama di ba? napakakipot ng daan at iilan lang ang nakakapasok. pilitin po natin daanan ang tamang landas. :)

Reply:

Ibig mong sabihn na... sige magpa brainwash pa tayo. Itiklop na natin ang utak natin sa ibang nagyayari sa pagsulat sa biblia.

Rudie

18th Dec '07 Tue, 06:31

[QUOTE=jayem;300101]kung hango sa turo ni Pablo, dapat pablism ang faith mo at di ka christian, si pablo ay nagturo ng mga aral na galing kay Kristo, plain and simple di ba. to further explain, kapag nagaral ka ng Education as your course in college halimbawa science, nakagraduate ka at naging professor, masasabi mo bang ang natutunan mo na itinuturo mo sa mga estudyante ay hango sa iyo? di ba galing yun sa natutuhan mo na itinuro na nang matagal na panahon?

no offense bro, naliligaw ka na yata. si kristo ang nagturo ng mga aral o ng mga utos na dapat gawin ng mga tao, kaya kristiyanismo na maitatawag yun. sabi mo si kristo ay judeo, tama? ako ay pilipino, magturo ako ng aral ni kristo pilipinismo na ba ang tawag dun?[UNQUOTE]

Reply:

Yung mga sulat ni Pablo nandoon po yung sabi niya na turo galing kay Kristo. Yung apat na ebanghelyo huli po yung dumating kay sa mga sulat ni Pablo. Si Pablo ay hindi nakakita kay Kristo at hindi rin siya ang tinuturuan ni Kristo... kung nagturo man dito sa lupa si Kristo. Sa mga sulat ni Pablo dinagdagan yan ng mga church fathers noong namatay si Pablo. Halimbawa ay ang 2Thessalonians ay dagdag na sulat. Yung Philemon at Timothy yon ay dagdag na mga sulat. Yung Revelation ay sulat ng isang gnostic writer na si Cerinthus. Naligaw ito sa biblia kasi tulad din to sa gospel of Judas.

Yung turo ni Pablo tinawag niya na 'Christianity' dahil ang gusto o purpose nga ng early Christians na palitan nila ang relihyong Hudaismo. Halimbawa ay ang utos ng Dios sa OT, yung mga dietary laws sa Judaism, ang Israel pinalitan nila na sa pangalang 'Church' at iba pang mga feast sa Jewish religion ay pinalitan ng mga pista din sa Kristyanismo.

Yung sabi mo na naligaw ako ay isang 'honest opinion' mo lang yan. Hindi mo kasi alam.

Rudie

18th Dec '07 Tue, 06:36

Kapatid na Rudie, if you don't mind, may i ask what is your religion?

Reply:

Kita mo... Akala ko ba hindi importante ang 'religion' sa iyo. Ngayon tinanong mo na ako kung ano ang relihiyon ko. Tsk....

Rudie

18th Dec '07 Tue, 07:03

[QUOTE=RTP_78;300639]OK.. so Bible should not be the basis of this discussion. Cause like what I've said you can not argue unless you have the same basis...

Reply:

We arguing on the basis of the bible. I am arguing against the authenticity of the bible. You are arguing that the bible is the words of God.

RTP opined:

So you said it yourself! Now you agree with me that,

"It'll be more easier to say to seek God and obey His commandments rather than to raise a particular group which creates conflict among peolple."

Reply:

Dagdag sa mahabang diskusyon kung sabihin mo na 'commandments of God'. Ano ba yung mga utos sa lumang tipan o yun bang sa bago. Kaya binigyan nga kita ng mga katotohanan tungkol sa pagsulat sa biblia. Yan isama mo yan sa pag-google mo.

RTP opined:

huh?? Nosebleed ako ah.... So... if Islam won as the dominant religion in the world then Christianity would mean a religion centered on the life and teaching of Muhammed. Nice argument... Dugo ilong ko ah...

Reply:

Laging dudugo ang ilong mo kung hindi ka marunong gumamit ng logic. Paano mapili ang islam na 'dominant religion' na noong nagpili sa Constantine the Great ng official religion ng Rome e' 350 years pa bago dumating ang islamic religion. Ang Christianity kasi naging official religion ng roman empire noong taong 325 AD. Ang islam dumating noong taong 662 AD. Malayo ang agwat.

Atsaka yung premise mo rin sa itaas talagang nakakadugo sa ilong halimbawa pagbibigyan... wala sa tamang logic.

Kung islam ang napili di si Muhammad ang center sa mga turo. Bakit isali mo ang Christianity na sabi islam ang pinili. Hehehe...

RTP opined:

What I mean is "research it". I just use the word "google it" for it is famous phrase for conducting a research, its a research engine by the way in case you don't know. Since you do not believe in the Bible try to use google to search any topic of your interest, try to research for more information, I suggest you start with reading comprehension topics.

Reply:

Tama! Mag researh ka rin, subukan mo, yung mga biblical interpolations at mga pseudepigraphical writings in the bible. Marami kang mapulot nito.

smart41

18th Dec '07 Tue, 08:21

ako isa lng ang masasabi ko igalang natin lahat nang paniniwala sa isat isa. kasi isa lng naman ang ating gustong mangyari ang makapunta sa paraiso na sinasabi. sa bible......

Rudie

18th Dec '07 Tue, 10:48

saan ka po kumukuha ng basis mo kapatid? sa mga history ba? baka lalo ka maligaw niyan.

Hindi tayo maligaw kapatid kasi.... History is, the testing ground of ideas. We can talk in theory about ideas, but time clearly shows us which ideas are right or wrong. Di ba? Sabi nga ng isang dalubhasa; "Those who cannot remember the past are bound to repeat it." Kaya kung hindi natin matutunan ang mga aral sa lumipas ay didikit tayo dyan sa mga problema ng lumipas na panahon. Kaya pag-aralan din natin tulad ng paano sinulat ang biblia noong mga sinauna na mga paring katoliko. Sila ang sumulat sa biblia e' at hindi ang Dios. Huwag mong iwaksi ang paniniwala mo sa Dios pero mag-ingat ka sa tao kasi lolokohin ka nyan at iligaw ka.

RTP_78

18th Dec '07 Tue, 13:26

Note lang po sa lahat ng nagpopost:

Before you reply to this thread be sure that you are equip with "reading comprehension skills". So you may understand every sentence construction, denotation and significance.

RTP_78

18th Dec '07 Tue, 14:17

huh?? Nosebleed ako ah.... So... if Islam won as the dominant religion in the world then Christianity would mean a religion centered on the life and teaching of Muhammed. Nice argument... Dugo ilong ko ah...

Reply:

Kung islam ang napili di si Muhammad ang center sa mga turo. Bakit isali mo ang Christianity na sabi islam ang pinili. Hehehe...

Sabi mo and I quote.

"If Google puts its meaning of Christianity as a religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, it is because Christianity won the battle as a dominat religion in the world."

Ibig sabihin nyan tatagalugin ko na kase mukang Nosebleed ka sa english discussion eh.

"Kung ang nilagay na kahulugan ng Kristianismo sa Google ay - relihiyon na ang punong katuruan ay base sa buhay at pangaral ni Kristo eh DAHIL LAMANG sa ang Kristianismo ang nagwagi bilang dominateng relihiyon sa mundo."

Ang logic jan tol, paliwanag ko lang ng konti... Naging yon ang meaning ng Christianity kase sya ang nagwagi bilang dominant religion.

Cause and effect lang yan eh...

Ang "Cause" - yung dominant religion
Ang "Effect" - yung naging meaning ng Christianity

So ibig sabihin kung ibang religion ang nagwagi maiiba ang magiging meaning ng Christianity. Ayan ang logic ng sinabi mo mukang hinde mo naintindihan kase english.

Anyway no offense man pero hinde naman sa bawal ang bata dito pero kung high-school ka pa lang, mag-concentrate ka muna sa school lalu na sa english kesa sa mga forum. Sabi ko na kaya pala ganyan ang paniniwala mo... hehehehe

Rudie

18th Dec '07 Tue, 19:12

Sabi mo and I quote. "If Google puts its meaning of Christianity as a religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, it is because Christianity won the battle as a dominat religion in the world."

Ibig sabihin nyan tatagalugin ko na kase mukang Nosebleed ka sa english discussion eh.

"Kung ang nilagay na kahulugan ng Kristianismo sa Google ay - relihiyon na ang punong katuruan ay base sa buhay at pangaral ni Kristo eh DAHIL LAMANG sa ang Kristianismo ang nagwagi bilang dominateng relihiyon sa mundo."

Ang logic jan tol, paliwanag ko lang ng konti... Naging yon ang meaning ng Christianity kase sya ang nagwagi bilang dominant religion.

Cause and effect lang yan eh...

Ang "Cause" - yung dominant religion
Ang "Effect" - yung naging meaning ng Christianity

Reply:

Nagkandadugo-dugo na ang ilong mo sa paliwanag. Opinion ko yang ipinaliwanag mo. I should be the one defending that idea because that is my opinion.

Explanation:

Google gives the meaning of Christianity as a religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. But I created the premise that; "If Google puts its meaning of Christianity as a religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, it is because Christianity won the battle as a dominant religion in the world."

Ito ang sinabi mo. Ipaliwanag mo nga!

"huh?? Nosebleed ako ah.... So... if Islam won as the dominant religion in the world then Christianity would mean a religion centered on the life and teaching of Muhammed. Nice argument... Dugo ilong ko ah..."

RTP opined:

So ibig sabihin kung ibang religion ang nagwagi maiiba ang magiging meaning ng Christianity. Ayan ang logic ng sinabi mo mukang hinde mo naintindihan kase english.

Reply:

If other religion triumphed over Christianity, it will not only lost its meaning but Christianity will just evaporate into thin air. Since Christianity triumphed over all the other rival religions it obligated it self to absorb their rituals and doctrines.

RTP opined:

Anyway no offense man pero hinde naman sa bawal ang bata dito pero kung high-school ka pa lang, mag-concentrate ka muna sa school lalu na sa english kesa sa mga forum. Sabi ko na kaya pala ganyan ang paniniwala mo... hehehehe

Reply:

Okay we will proceed with the discussion in English.

More explanations....

I think you did not get my point because I did not give you a clear explanation. It is also my fault... Now I am going to repeat the words I said. If Google puts its meaning of Christianity as a religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, it's because Christianity won the battle as a dominant religion in the world.

That is the conventional wisdom!

Why? Because when Constantine the Great made Christianity the official religion of the empire it was not Christianity alone that merged with pagan Rome but all other religion that were preached in the empire. These religions were the Mithraic religion, gnostic, Marcionism, Mandean, Zoroastrianism and many more. The Christian philosophy was selected because Christianity was the dominant religion in the empire.

Islam is not included in the merger because Islam is still 350 years away.

ravnstock7

18th Dec '07 Tue, 20:20

Wow, heated discussion here.

Mga pips, this thread is entitled: Alam n'yo ba ang tunay na relihiyon? (followed by two more question marks, i guess for emphasis). From my previous post, I've said that truth is relative. Which is true: what may be true to you may not be true for me or anybody else. The thing here is: keep an open mind and learn to respect other's religion or, most importantly, beliefs.

From another thread entitled: Ano ang Religion mo? I've said that I truly believe in C.S. Lewis's words in which he said: Every religion holds a glimmer of truth. Ladies and gentlemen of this thread, all religions share the same truths of doing good to your fellow men. If you scrutinize religious teachings and their sources you would see that they agree on that one point: Be a good person, avoid evil, if you can then help others and all will be fine for you after death, be it in a place called Heaven, Nirvana, another cycle of reincarnation, or whatever you believe in.

Pips, religion is a very sensitive topic. Keep an open mind.

RTP_78

18th Dec '07 Tue, 20:29

Last reply ko na to ha kase hinde naman ako english teacher dito eh...

Topic (Pinag-uusapan): Meaning ng Christianity

Sabi mo and I quote.

English

"If Google puts its meaning of Christianity as a religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, it is because Christianity won the battle as a dominat religion in the world.".

Tagalog:

"Kung ang nilagay na kahulugan ng Kristianismo sa Google ay - relihiyon na ang punong katuruan ay base sa buhay at pangaral ni Kristo eh DAHIL LAMANG sa ang Kristianismo ang nagwagi bilang dominateng relihiyon sa mundo."

Ang sentence na to ibig sabihin ulitin ko ulit:

Effect
Kaya naging ganun ang meaning ng Christianity which is:
"Religion centered on the life and teaching of Christ"

Cause
Kase sabi mo ang dahilan:
Christianity won the battle as a dominant religion.

Cause and effect yan due to the conjunction "Because".

Ngayon dahil yan ang argumento mo, nagnosebleed ako; Kase hinde naman yon yung dahilan kaya naging ganun ang meaning ng salitang Christianity. Kaya nag reply ako ng sarcastic na sentence para iaggravate yung point of contention mo at marealize mo sana na mali ang logic na gusto mong palabasin at hinde na ko mag-explain pa.

Kaya sinabi ko

"huh?? Nosebleed ako ah.... So... if Islam won as the dominant religion in the world then Christianity would mean a religion centered on the life and teaching of Muhammed. Nice argument... Dugo ilong ko ah..." .

Kase nga ang punto mo eh dahil nagwagi ang Kristianismo bilang dominanteng relihiyon, ang naging meaning na nya eh... "Religion centered on the life and teaching of Christ"

Eto ngayun yung sarcasm dun...Dahil ang pinag uusapan natin eh meaning ng salitang Kristianismo. Sensya na di ko alam tagalog sa sarcasm.

Subject: Meaning ng Christianismo
Cause: Pano kung Islam ang nagwagi?
Effect: Magiging meaning - Ano na?

Sa sentence mo dependent ang meaning ng salitang Kristianismo kung sino ang nagwagi bilang dominanteng relihiyon. Sana magets mo na kase di ko na alam kung pano ko pa ipaliwanag.

jmark

18th Dec '07 Tue, 20:33

actually this thread helps a lot you know why? as the topic heats up more and more idea comes from each in which upon trying to defend their beliefs at the same time others at some point may learn even a small amount of knowledge and understanding in one`s religion..

religion doesnt save us from our sins, its our strong beliefs in HIM and as long as you believe and as long as you obey what is right and just..you`ll do just fine..

KAYA MO YAN KID....:SALUTE:

Rudie

19th Dec '07 Wed, 07:55

[QUOTE=RTP_78;301861]Last reply ko na to ha kase hinde naman ako english teacher dito eh...

Topic (Pinag-uusapan): Meaning ng Christianity

Sabi mo and I quote.

Tagalog:

"Kung ang nilagay na kahulugan ng Kristianismo sa Google ay - relihiyon na ang punong katuruan ay base sa buhay at pangaral ni Kristo eh DAHIL LAMANG sa ang Kristianismo ang nagwagi bilang dominateng relihiyon sa mundo."

Ang sentence na to ibig sabihin ulitin ko ulit:

Reply:

You keep on insisting in giving me an explanation. If you agree with that opinion then our disagreement is solved. The phrase underscored above and below is my idea replying to Google's meaning of Christianity. It's a hypothetical premise that;

"If Google puts its meaning of Christianity as a religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, it is because Christianity won the battle as a dominat religion in the world."

RTP opined:

Ngayon dahil yan ang argumento mo, nagnosebleed ako; Kase hinde naman yon yung dahilan kaya naging ganun ang meaning ng salitang Christianity. Kaya nag reply ako ng sarcastic na sentence para iaggravate yung point of contention mo at marealize mo sana na mali ang logic na gusto mong palabasin at hinde na ko mag-explain pa.

Reply:

Your blood pressure will come out of your nose always if you keep on the warpath of illogical answers. The way you explained the meaning of my premise gives me the idea that my opinion is correct. Because if not... and if you know the cause why Google's meaning of Christianity centered on the teachings of Jesus then, you should have given us your own reasons... instead of scrutinizing the logic of my premise.

RTP opined:

Kaya sinabi ko

Kase nga ang punto mo eh dahil nagwagi ang Kristianismo bilang dominanteng relihiyon, ang naging meaning na nya eh... "Religion centered on the life and teaching of Christ"

Reply:

If Christianity did not win the battle of religious supremacy in the 2nd and 3rd century it will just become an obscure entity.
The reason Constantine the Great integrated all the religions in the empire was to prevent religious bickering. He chose Christianity to be the official religion of the empire because christianity's influence reached already the far fringes of the world.

RTP opined:

Eto ngayun yung sarcasm dun...Dahil ang pinag uusapan natin eh meaning ng salitang Kristianismo. Sensya na di ko alam tagalog sa sarcasm.

Subject: Meaning ng Christianismo
Cause: Pano kung Islam ang nagwagi?
Effect: Magiging meaning - Ano na?

Reply:

I am going to make a surgical explanation of the premise you presented above. You listen....

Subject: Meaning of Christianity - The meaning of Christianity presented by Google is a religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. If we select the timeline when Google chose the meaning of Christianity we can put it in the year 1998, the year Google went into business.

But before the year 1998 Christianity's meaning which centered on the 'teachings of Jesus of Nazareth' will go down to the years 323-325 AD as a landmark in its founding as the official religion of the Roman empire. This is what we call 'conventional thinking or wisdom'. Any opposition to that thinking will pass through the eye of a needle.

Cause: Pano kung Islam ang nagwagi? This is where your logic is twisted. We cannot make a parallel timeline to Christianity because Muhammad was not yet born. Muhammad was born in 570 AD.. How can Islam compete with Christianity in 325 AD?

Granting for the sake of arguments... Let us change Islam to the Mandean religion. So if the Mandean religion became the official religion of the Roman empire, Christianity will lost its meaning and Mandean is the dominant religion of the Roman empire and its teachings will be centered on John the Baptist. All the rituals and doctrines of Christianity will be absorbed by the Mandean religion.

Effect: Magiging meaning - Ano na? Christianity will be nothing and be just a footnote of history. Remember this; Those who won the battles are the writers of history.

jayem

19th Dec '07 Wed, 14:51

from Rudie

if Catholic is the oldest or original religion in Christianity... all other religious sects derived or came from Catholicism. Any Christian religion that secede away from Catholicism because of difference of opinion in the books of the New Testament is a religion derived or came from Catholicism. Even if Christianity centered its teaching in Jesus still it is Abrahamic because Jesus is nothing without the prophecy in the OT. The NT is the fulfillment of the OT according to Christianity.

di mo pa ba nabasa na catholic ang nagliko ng mga aral nuong una, kagaya ng pagdarasal ng paulit-ulit, pagsamba sa mga rebulto na ginawa ng tao? di ba nasa history din yun? nasa bible din yun, naganap ang hula sa katoliko so why believe their teachings? i'm a catholic before. nasa apocalipsis po ang mga hula na yan na naganap na.

jayem

19th Dec '07 Wed, 15:35

Hindi tayo maligaw kapatid kasi.... History is, the testing ground of ideas. We can talk in theory about ideas, but time clearly shows us which ideas are right or wrong. Di ba? Sabi nga ng isang dalubhasa; "Those who cannot remember the past are bound to repeat it." Kaya kung hindi natin matutunan ang mga aral sa lumipas ay didikit tayo dyan sa mga problema ng lumipas na panahon. Kaya pag-aralan din natin tulad ng paano sinulat ang biblia noong mga sinauna na mga paring katoliko. Sila ang sumulat sa biblia e' at hindi ang Dios. Huwag mong iwaksi ang paniniwala mo sa Dios pero mag-ingat ka sa tao kasi lolokohin ka nyan at iligaw ka.

just like what i've said, niliko ng katoliko ang aral na binigay ng diyos, so why believe them. sila pa mismo(galing sa libro ng katoliko) na nagawang iliko ang pananampalataya, iniba ang turo para sa kapangyarihan. i just forgot the name of the book they printed wayback then. sila pa nga yung naganap sa hula sa apocalipsis. excuse me for catholics here, but that is true.

that is why ingat na ingat ako na maloko ng tao kaya bago ako sumagot dito, nananalangin ako na wag ako maligaw sa paniniwalang natutunan ko galing sa salita ng diyos. my faith is clear, i have no doubts in christianity, pinatunayan pa ng mga ito kahit na marami ang nagtayo ng relihiyon eh iisa pa rin ang totoo at yun ay ang mga salita ng diyos na nakasulat sa bible, nailiko man yun ng mga paring katoliko noong unang panahon.

ravnstock7

19th Dec '07 Wed, 16:18

Man, be careful of things that you say: niliko ng katoliko ang aral na binigay ng diyos. There may be people here who may take offense when they read what you've written.

jayem

19th Dec '07 Wed, 16:40

Man, be careful of things that you say: niliko ng katoliko ang aral na binigay ng diyos. There may be people here who may take offense when they read what you've written.

yes that's true, they even claimed that it is true. may libro sila na nagpapatunay nun, even sa pasyon may patunay dun.

i may sound rude, but it is clear from their books and from the prophecies on the bible. even the 666 claims to be the said church. pagpasensyahan niyo na ako, alam ko marami ang magagalit sa kin lalo na mga catholics pero yun ang totoo eh. their priest called themselves "Father" even God the Father said that he is the only Father.

As to the Antichrist teach that the prophecies of the Holy Scriptures concerning the Antichrist, 2 Thess. 2:3-12; 1 John 2:18, have been fulfilled in the Pope of Rome and his dominion. All the features of the Antichrist as drawn in these prophecies, including the most abominable and horrible ones, for example, that the Antichrist "as God sitteth in the temple of God," 2 Thess. 2:4; that he anathematizes the very heart of the Gospel of Christ, that is, the doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace alone, for Christ's sake alone, through faith alone, without any merit or worthiness in man (Rom. 3:20-28; Gal. 2:16); that he recognizes only those as members of the Christian Church who bow to his authority; and that, like a deluge, he had inundated the whole Church with his antichristian doctrines till God revealed him through the Reformation -- these very features are the outstanding characteristics of the Papacy. (Cf. Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 515, Paragraphs 39-41; p. 401, Paragraph 45; M. pp. 336, 258.) Hence we subscribe to the statement of our Confessions that the Pope is "the very Antichrist." (Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 475, Paragraph 10; M., p. 308.) [8]

Revelation 13 contains a description of the Antichrist:

1. "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."

2. "And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

3. "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

4. "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him?"

5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."

6. "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven."

7. "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

8 ."And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." (as per the King James Bible)

Some theorists attribute the wounding and resurgence in the third verse to the papacy, referring to General Louis Berthier's capture of Pope Pius VI in 1798 , and the pope's subsequent death in 1799 . Instead of reducing the power of the papacy, however, it grew and became the most influential political and religious power in the world. As another example, Gerard Bodson claims in his book "Cracking the Apocalypse Code" that this line refers to the defeat of Germany in World War I and its recovery under the Nazis. Germany is named as one of the heads of the beast (the other heads representing the other members of the Axis Powers: Italy, Japan, Finland, Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary).

ravnstock7

19th Dec '07 Wed, 18:24

You know what, jayem, you're really an amazing dude and I mean it in a good way. :D It seems you've researched or know of these things very well. I am Roman Catholic but I still like the way you give your statements. I'll be honest and say that I don't believe them but that's not the point here. I really like how you prove your points by giving examples or passages, that proves that you stand by what you say. Well, again, I'll just say that people must keep an open mind. Peace, man. :peace:

weeman

19th Dec '07 Wed, 18:43

that is why ingat na ingat ako na maloko ng tao kaya bago ako sumagot dito, nananalangin ako na wag ako maligaw sa paniniwalang natutunan ko galing sa salita ng diyos. my faith is clear, i have no doubts in christianity, pinatunayan pa ng mga ito kahit na marami ang nagtayo ng relihiyon eh iisa pa rin ang totoo at yun ay ang mga salita ng diyos na nakasulat sa bible, nailiko man yun ng mga paring katoliko noong unang panahon.

bro what's your religion?

answer me in PM.

jayem

19th Dec '07 Wed, 19:01

Rudie

20th Dec '07 Thu, 09:31

[QOUTE]di mo pa ba nabasa na catholic ang nagliko ng mga aral nuong una, kagaya ng pagdarasal ng paulit-ulit, pagsamba sa mga rebulto na ginawa ng tao? di ba nasa history din yun? nasa bible din yun, naganap ang hula sa katoliko so why believe their teachings? i'm a catholic before. nasa apocalipsis po ang mga hula na yan na naganap na.[/QUOTE]

Reply:

Tama ka! Nasa history yung binaggit mo... Pero saan yung mga aral na niliko ng unang mga Kristyano o katoliko? Ang sagot nyan e'... "Yung mga aral na niliko ay nasa Unang Tipan... Ibig sabihin nito yung mga aral na nasa relihiyon na itinayo ng mga Hudeo ang niliko ng unang mga Kristyano o yung unang mga church fathers."

Tanong: Bakit nila niliko? At sino ito silang gustong bumaluktot sa aral ng Dios?

Sagot: Sila ay mga Greek/Hellenist na mga 'citzen' at nakatira sa Roman empire noong araw. Kaya ang New Testament ay hindi salin sa salitang Hebrew/Aramaic na yun ang salita ng mga Hudeo. Niliko nila ang aral ng Dios dahil hindi po nila kayang sundan ang sobrang pagka conserbatibong mga aral na nandiyan sa Torah. Samakatuwid ang New Testament ay sinulat pagkontra sa relihiyon ng mga Hudeo. Ito ang tinatawag na 'anti-Judaism'.

Rudie

20th Dec '07 Thu, 11:33

just like what i've said, niliko ng katoliko ang aral na binigay ng diyos, so why believe them. sila pa mismo(galing sa libro ng katoliko) na nagawang iliko ang pananampalataya, iniba ang turo para sa kapangyarihan. i just forgot the name of the book they printed wayback then. sila pa nga yung naganap sa hula sa apocalipsis. excuse me for catholics here, but that is true.

Reply:

May mga Pilipino na tahimik lang kung tungkol na sa panampalataya. Hindi ibig sabihin na nag-believe sila kundi 'tolerant' lang sila. Because if we are talking of 'teachings and religious beliefs' all Christians should be grateful to the Church Fathers who were Catholics. They were reponsible for Christians for being a Christian. I for one, will blame the church for some other things but I will never blame them my situation for being a christian.

Once a person trying to bolt out of the Catholic church thinking that the teachings of the church is wrong... the more he is going the wrong way. If somebody wants to correct the Catholic church, the best is to go back to Judaism. There are some Christians who are eager to similarize their teachings to Judaism like the Jewish/Christian church, the Seventh Day Adventist or the Witnesses of Jehovah, but they cannot be accepted because there is Jesus Christ in their teachings. Jesus Christ is unacceptable in Judaism.

RTP_78

20th Dec '07 Thu, 12:32

The phrase underscored above and below is my idea replying to Google's meaning of Christianity.

Hanep! Idea mo pala! Utoy ang kulet mo talaga natutuwa ako sayo. Sige na nga pagtyatyagaan na kitang turuan kase mukang naliligaw ka ng landas base sa mga sariling mong idea.

Unang una... Kay Google muna tayo. Simplehan lang natin para maintindihan mo.

If we select the timeline when Google chose the meaning of Christianity we can put it in the year 1998, the year Google went into business.

Unang una hinde si Goolge ang nag"Chose" ng meaning ha. Dahil ang Google eh "Search Engine lang" tagahanap lang po. Dapat mong maintindihan muna ngayun kung anu ang World Wide Web. "WWW". Yan po eh interlinked hypertext documents. Walang tagalog sa hypertext sensya na. Ngayun, anu yung mga document na interconnected? Yan yung mga information through books, libraries, encyclopedia, servers, computers na nakakabit sa WWW. Yung meaning ng Christianity sa internet eh nanggaling sa ibat ibang sources. Like online encylopedia, dictionaries, historical books, basically parang libo libong online libraries. Iho pag libraries ibig sabihin madaming madaming libro ha, matanda o bagong libro. Si google po ang trabaho nya eh hanapin lahat ng nung page na magbibigay sayo ng information tungkol sa hinahanap mo para makita mo sa screen ng computer mo. Sana malinaw sayo. Kase kahit anung hard copy na libro sa mundo walang nag-aagree at mag-aagree sa mga sinasabi mo about the meaning of Christianity na sabi mo nga eh "base on your own Idea". I don't have to explain anything kase kahit anung search gawin mo sa hard copy na libro o online books ayun pa rin ang lalabas na meaning. Christianity is a religion centered on the life ang teaching of Christ. Hinde na mababago yon. Yaan mo pag tanda tanda mo at pag nakatapos ka na ng college maiintindihan mo rin ako.

We cannot make a parallel timeline to Christianity because Muhammad was not yet born.

Utoy alamin mo kase meaning ng "sarcasm"? Sabi naman sayo magconcentrate ka muna sa pag-aaral tapusin mo muna ang high-school.

Your blood pressure will come out of your nose.

Utoy kilala mo ba si Inday? Hinde ka na nag-aaral hinde ka pa naglalabas ng bahay. Masama sa katawan yan.

jmark

20th Dec '07 Thu, 13:24

buti pa cguro utoy makinig ka na lng sa cnsabi ni RTP_78, aral ka na lng muna cguro d kaya pa tutor ka na lng kay inday...or maybe yet,research ka muna kung cno si inday baka mapahiya ka...:salute:

Rudie

21st Dec '07 Fri, 06:19

Unang una... Kay Google muna tayo. Simplehan lang natin para maintindihan mo.

Unang una hinde si Goolge ang nag"Chose" ng meaning ha. Dahil ang Google eh "Search Engine lang" tagahanap lang po. Dapat mong maintindihan muna ngayun kung anu ang World Wide Web. "WWW". Yan po eh interlinked hypertext documents. Walang tagalog sa hypertext sensya na. Ngayun, anu yung mga document na interconnected? Yan yung mga information through books, libraries, encyclopedia, servers, computers na nakakabit sa WWW. Yung meaning ng Christianity sa internet eh nanggaling sa ibat ibang sources. Like online encylopedia, dictionaries, historical books, basically parang libo libong online libraries. Iho pag libraries ibig sabihin madaming madaming libro ha, matanda o bagong libro. Si google po ang trabaho nya eh hanapin lahat ng nung page na magbibigay sayo ng information tungkol sa hinahanap mo para makita mo sa screen ng computer mo. Sana malinaw sayo.

Reply:

Malinaw sa akin ang sinasabi mo. Kumo Search engine ang Google kumuha sila ng meaning ng Christianity base on 'conventional wisdom or ang ibang tawag ay traditional thinking'. Saan po nanggaling itong conventional or traditional thinking na ito? Yan po ay nanggaling sa mga early Church Fathers or yong mga early Christians. Sila ang nagbigay ng meaning ng 'Christianity as a belief centered on the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth'.

Ang Google... yan ang binanggit mo na source na nagbigay ng meaning ng Christianity. kaya binigyan ko yan ng timeline sa pagbigay nila ng meaning online as 1998 kasi yun po ang start ng business nila.

Kase kahit anung hard copy na libro sa mundo walang nag-aagree at mag-aagree sa mga sinasabi mo about the meaning of Christianity na sabi mo nga eh "base on your own Idea".

Reply:

Ano yung meaning ng Christianity na sinasabi ko?

I don't have to explain anything kase kahit anung search gawin mo sa hard copy na libro o online books ayun pa rin ang lalabas na meaning. Christianity is a religion centered on the life ang teaching of Christ. Hinde na mababago yon. Yaan mo pag tanda tanda mo at pag nakatapos ka na ng college maiintindihan mo rin ako.

Reply:

Tama ka! Ayun sa Google the meaning of 'Christianity is a religion centered on the life ang teaching of Christ'. Of course based on traditional thinking. In my own opinion... The reason for this is; "Because Christianity won as the dominant religion in the world."

RTP_78

21st Dec '07 Fri, 14:42

Tama ka! Ayun sa Google the meaning of 'Christianity is a religion centered on the life ang teaching of Christ'. Of course based on traditional thinking. In my own opinion... The reason for this is; "Because Christianity won as the dominant religion in the world."

Ayan balik na naman tayo. Tutoy hinde mo pwedeng irelate yung 2. Hinde kase kailangan ng opinion nyan. Hinde dependent yung meaning ng Christianismo kung dominanteng religion man sya o hinde.

Turuan naman kita ngayon about words and their meaning.

Unang una pano ba nabubuo ang isang salita? san nagmula (Etymology ang tawag dun). Pag nalaman mo kung san nagmula ang isang salita ayun na rin halos yung kahulugan nya. Ang isang word sya ang nagbibigay ng short description sa sinasabing meaning nya. Kaya nalikha ang isang salita to give a short name or description sa isang mahabang paliwanag.

Ngayun hinde dependent ang meaning word kung saan pa man, dependent yan sa mismong salita. Nalikha ang isang salita dahil sa kanyang pinatutungkulan and not the other way around. Kaya hinde pwedeng mangyari ang sinasabi mo.

Halimbawa ko naman ngayun Confucianism - an ancient Chinese ethical and philosophical system originally developed from the teachings of the early Chinese sage and philosopher Confucius.

Ang salitang ito "Confucianism" ay naimbento to identify a philosophical system na base sa turo ni Confucius. Kalimitan ang salita eh base sa "Root word" kung san sya hinango. Christianity is just the same hinango sa "root word" na Christ. Hinde sya hinango sa salitang "dominant religion". So hinde dun dependent yun tutoy.

Sa history ng salitang Christian/Christianity or Christianism eh hinde sa early Chrurch fathers nanggaling. Nagsimula ang salitang Christian na nasa Bible din, yan ang salita na nag-iidentify sa mga followers ni Jesus. Yan ang binagay na panangalan ng mga Romans. Parang kastila tinawag sa mga Pilipino noon "Indio" - Indigenous Native. Hinde sinabi dun dahil dominant people ang Christian kaya meaning nya followers of Jesus - anu ba yun. So hinde pwede yung argument mo tutoy. Ang salitang Christian ang ibinansag sa mga tao ng sumusunod kay Kristo nung mga panahong yon.

RTP_78

21st Dec '07 Fri, 15:22

If we select the timeline when Google chose the meaning of Christianity we can put it in the year 1998, the year Google went into business.

Ang Google... yan ang binanggit mo na source na nagbigay ng meaning ng Christianity. kaya binigyan ko yan ng timeline sa pagbigay nila ng meaning online as 1998 kasi yun po ang start ng business nila.

Tutoy me naintindihan ka ba sa sinabi ko? Unang una di ko binanggit na source ng meaning ng Christianity ang google. Hinde sila ang namili at nagbibigay ng meaning. Nosebleed na ko sayo ha susumbong kita ke Inday.

"I would repeat it again, if you have doubt Google it".

Nagbigay ako ng meaning at sabi ko kung duda sa meaning na binigay ko eh igoogle mo, in other words iresearch mo. Ngayun yung mga sinasabi mo it is completely non-sense, irelevant. Me 1998 ka pa iho mag-aral kang mabuti yan ang maipapayo ko sayo. Araling yung sense ng isang sentence yung binibigay nyang kahulugan wag basta banat ng banat. Me potesyal ka mukang masipag kang magbasa pero be sure unawain mong maiigi yung main thought ng isang sentence o phrase. Lalu na tungkol sa mga sinasabi mo. Be sure na ok ang construction ng sentence mo kase isang word lang palitan mo mag iiba na ang thought lalu sa conjunctions. Tama na tong usap natin. Ibang thread naman hahanapin ko pa si Trinity wag na kayong makikiaalam walang eentra dun please lang po wala pa sana syang BF...

jayem

21st Dec '07 Fri, 15:38

Ayan balik na naman tayo. Tutoy hinde mo pwedeng irelate yung 2. Hinde kase kailangan ng opinion nyan. Hinde dependent yung meaning ng Christianismo kung dominanteng religion man sya o hinde.

Turuan naman kita ngayon about words and their meaning.

Unang una pano ba nabubuo ang isang salita? san nagmula (Etymology ang tawag dun). Pag nalaman mo kung san nagmula ang isang salita ayun na rin halos yung kahulugan nya. Ang isang word sya ang nagbibigay ng short description sa sinasabing meaning nya. Kaya nalikha ang isang salita to give a short name or description sa isang mahabang paliwanag.

Ngayun hinde dependent ang meaning word kung saan pa man, dependent yan sa mismong salita. Nalikha ang isang salita dahil sa kanyang pinatutungkulan and not the other way around. Kaya hinde pwedeng mangyari ang sinasabi mo.

Halimbawa ko naman ngayun Confucianism - an ancient Chinese ethical and philosophical system originally developed from the teachings of the early Chinese sage and philosopher Confucius.

Ang salitang ito "Confucianism" ay naimbento to identify a philosophical system na base sa turo ni Confucius. Kalimitan ang salita eh base sa "Root word" kung san sya hinango. Christianity is just the same hinango sa "root word" na Christ. Hinde sya hinango sa salitang "dominant religion". So hinde dun dependent yun tutoy.

Ano ba history ng salitang Christian/Christianity or Christianism eh hinde sa early Chrurch fathers nanggaling. Nagsimula ang salitang Christian na nasa Bible din, yan ang salita na nag-iidentify sa mga followers ni Jesus. Binagay na panangalan ng mga Romans. Parang kastila tinawag sa mga Pilipino noon "Indio" - Indigenous Native. Hinde sinabi dun dahil dominant people ang Christian kaya meaning nya followers of Jesus - anu ba yun. So hinde pwede yung argument mo tutoy. Ang salitang Christian ang ibinansag sa mga tao ng sumusunod kay Kristo nung mga panahong yon.

Tama RTP.

If Rudie will just search back this thread, i already make a note that if I (JM) teaches an idea or a belief originating from me, it will be called JM-ism or JM-ity(whatever is right) and my followers will be called JMians(like christian). plain and simple

So Rudie, if you say that the adventist or jewish church is not the right church or religion(depends on how you understand) because they are teaching Jesus or they have Jesus in their doctrines, do you believe that people should not worship jesus? SO, who are we gonna worship? Who will be our god then? balewala na ba yung hula sa old testament sa Isaiah na magpapadala ng sugo ang Diyos AMA? na ipadadala niya ang anak niya? ayan tinagalog ko na para mas madaling maintindihan.

My point is, nagiwan ng aral ang Kristo para masundan natin, pinagsama-sama lahat ng sulat para eto ang sundin, kung may madagdag man siguro eh dapat nating pagaralan kung tama ba yung verse o mali. don' t go and jump to other book if you haven't understand bible.

jayem

21st Dec '07 Fri, 15:43

bro what's your religion?

answer me in PM.

before i answer it, i wanna know why. :)

jayem

21st Dec '07 Fri, 16:03

[QOUTE]di mo pa ba nabasa na catholic ang nagliko ng mga aral nuong una, kagaya ng pagdarasal ng paulit-ulit, pagsamba sa mga rebulto na ginawa ng tao? di ba nasa history din yun? nasa bible din yun, naganap ang hula sa katoliko so why believe their teachings? i'm a catholic before. nasa apocalipsis po ang mga hula na yan na naganap na.

Reply:

Tama ka! Nasa history yung binaggit mo... Pero saan yung mga aral na niliko ng unang mga Kristyano o katoliko? Ang sagot nyan e'... "Yung mga aral na niliko ay nasa Unang Tipan... Ibig sabihin nito yung mga aral na nasa relihiyon na itinayo ng mga Hudeo ang niliko ng unang mga Kristyano o yung unang mga church fathers."

Tanong: Bakit nila niliko? At sino ito silang gustong bumaluktot sa aral ng Dios?

Sagot: Sila ay mga Greek/Hellenist na mga 'citzen' at nakatira sa Roman empire noong araw. Kaya ang New Testament ay hindi salin sa salitang Hebrew/Aramaic na yun ang salita ng mga Hudeo. Niliko nila ang aral ng Dios dahil hindi po nila kayang sundan ang sobrang pagka conserbatibong mga aral na nandiyan sa Torah. Samakatuwid ang New Testament ay sinulat pagkontra sa relihiyon ng mga Hudeo. Ito ang tinatawag na 'anti-Judaism'.[/QUOTE]

where did you get that idea? this is the first time i've heard or read such a statement like that. it's implication would be 'the Son of God, "Jesus" had fool people because they(meaning his followers) simply can't follow Judaism. Masakit pa nun, si Hesus ay anti-judaism, indirectly mo man sabihin pero it means that the follower of Jesus even the apostles who wrote the new testament eh niliko ang aral samantalang tinuruan niya ang apostol na ipagpatuloy ang mga aral. hayyy...

siguro di ka Christian no?

jayem

21st Dec '07 Fri, 16:18

Reply:

May mga Pilipino na tahimik lang kung tungkol na sa panampalataya. Hindi ibig sabihin na nag-believe sila kundi 'tolerant' lang sila. Because if we are talking of 'teachings and religious beliefs' all Christians should be grateful to the Church Fathers who were Catholics. They were reponsible for Christians for being a Christian. I for one, will blame the church for some other things but I will never blame them my situation for being a christian.

i wouldn't be grateful with the Catholic Church if you will say so.. First, Catholic is not the First christians, it was started with the apostles, Jesus Built his Church and the first members were the apostles.
Second, they are worshipping Saints at yung mga rebulto, nagdadasal sila ng paulit-ulit, kumakain sila ng dugo, maraming paring katoliko na pinapatay ang mga tao.

By the way, i am not blaming them, i am just telling people here the truth(obviously).

Once a person trying to bolt out of the Catholic church thinking that the teachings of the church is wrong... the more he is going the wrong way. If somebody wants to correct the Catholic church, the best is to go back to Judaism. There are some Christians who are eager to similarize their teachings to Judaism like the Jewish/Christian church, the Seventh Day Adventist or the Witnesses of Jehovah, but they cannot be accepted because there is Jesus Christ in their teachings. Jesus Christ is unacceptable in Judaism.

No one can ever correct them dude, It is their church, what i'm trying to do is for you and for other people here to understand what is the truth, if you are going to tell me to change catholic i won't, you know why? because it is written in the bible that it will happen, if you will remember the beast.

that one in bold up there... it only shows us that you are not a christian, isa kang Hudyo!

wala na dapat pagusapan pa siguro.

Rudie

22nd Dec '07 Sat, 04:59

Ayan balik na naman tayo. Tutoy hinde mo pwedeng irelate yung 2. Hinde kase kailangan ng opinion nyan. Hinde dependent yung meaning ng Christianismo kung dominanteng religion man sya o hinde.

Reply:

Bakit hindi kailangan ng opinion yan? Ipaliwanag mo rin bakit hindi. Palagay ko right ko yan magbigay ng opinion. Kung mali ang opinion ko bakit na man mali?

Unang una pano ba nabubuo ang isang salita? san nagmula (Etymology ang tawag dun). Pag nalaman mo kung san nagmula ang isang salita ayun na rin halos yung kahulugan nya. Ang isang word sya ang nagbibigay ng short description sa sinasabing meaning nya. Kaya nalikha ang isang salita to give a short name or description sa isang mahabang paliwanag.

Ngayun hinde dependent ang meaning word kung saan pa man, dependent yan sa mismong salita. Nalikha ang isang salita dahil sa kanyang pinatutungkulan and not the other way around. Kaya hinde pwedeng mangyari ang sinasabi mo.

Halimbawa ko naman ngayun Confucianism - an ancient Chinese ethical and philosophical system originally developed from the teachings of the early Chinese sage and philosopher Confucius.

Ang salitang ito "Confucianism" ay naimbento to identify a philosophical system na base sa tu