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  1. #321

    Default Re: who is really JESUS?

    @aliester, hindi nga naniniwala ang jews na si jesus ang redeemer dahil hindi sila naniniwala sa new testament so parang ikaw rin yun. ang meaning ng messiah/Christ=redeemer or saviour. at ang meaning naman ng jesus=saviour din. aliester, ang israel/people of israel ay servant din pero kaya dapat pag-aralan ang bawat characteristic ng bawat servants ng dios. yung suffering servant sa isaiah ay hind pwde na maging israel kasi tingnan mo: namatay ba ang israel at nabuhay? can israel bring forgiveness of sin? did in history of israel did not fight but willingly gave up their lives? only the messiah can do that!!!
    Last edited by 9Ten8ti; 29th Apr 2012 at 12:43.

  2. #322

    Default Re: who is really JESUS?

    @aliester, my mistake kung ganun, apologies...maitanong, hindi ba ang manuscripts ay yung mga papyrus yung dahon na pwde sulatan? tapos yung scroll ay malaking tela na sinusulatan? ganyan ang pagkaintindi ko.

  3. #323

    Default Re: who is really JESUS?

    alam mo aliester magkaiba talaga tayo ng prinsepyo kasi para sayo mali ang bible at mas tama para sayo ang mga taong nagstudy kung saan ito galing. sakin naman walang problema kung kaninong tao galing yan dahil para sakin dito nagwork ang power of god, he allowed it. pahabol din lang, may tatlong dominant religion ang bansang israel today. islam,judaism,christian. yung christian doon ay maliit na porsyento lang at sa tingin ko hindi tama ang doktrina nila. kaya nga para sakin ito yung purpose nang isulat ni moses anp ganito: i will use a so-called nation to make my people angry, i will make them jealous with a nation of fools. but even then still they did not listen. ang punto ko dito ay huwag mo gayahin ang paniniwala ng mga jewish people dahil hanggang ngayon matigas pa rin sila. fyi, so-called nation = gentiles. so gentiles na magturo sa kanila pero ayaw pa din.huwag ka sana maging tulad ng mga jews until now bulag pa rin.

  4. #324

    Default Re: who is really JESUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by 9Ten8ti [Link available to registered users only. Click here to register.]
    @aliester, hindi nga naniniwala ang jews na si jesus ang redeemer dahil hindi sila naniniwala sa new testament so parang ikaw rin yun. ang meaning ng messiah/Christ=redeemer or saviour. at ang meaning naman ng jesus=saviour din. aliester, ang israel/people of israel ay servant din pero kaya dapat pag-aralan ang bawat characteristic ng bawat servants ng dios. yung suffering servant sa isaiah ay hind pwde na maging israel kasi tingnan mo: namatay ba ang israel at nabuhay? can israel bring forgiveness of sin? did in history of israel did not fight but willingly gave up their lives? only the messiah can do that!!!
    saan mo naman nakuha ang meaning ng jesus=savior??

    paano mo naman sasabihing hindi israel yung servant na tinutukoy
    eh israel nga ang sinasabing servant mismo sa isaiah kulit
    naman out of context ka na po.. can israel bring forgiveness??
    naku naman hindi mo ba alam na for jews ang forgiveness of sins
    ay tru punishments.. ang punishment nayun ng dios ayon sa kanila
    ang dahilan kung bakit nagsusuffer sila under foreign rulers like
    assyrians,babylonias,macedonians etc.. but as chosen people they will
    bear this punishment and suffering and god will glorify them after he
    forgive them tru this punishment.. mas maganda basahin mo rin yung
    parallel ng isaiah sa book of psalms kung paano sila hinayaang patayin
    like sheep and lamb by other nations due to their sins:


    eto sa Psalm:

    Psa 44:9 But now you have rejected us and let us be defeated; you no longer march out with our armies.
    Psa 44:10 You made us run from our enemies, and they took for themselves what was ours.
    Psa 44:11 You allowed us to be slaughtered like sheep; you scattered us in foreign countries.
    Psa 44:12 You sold your own people for a small price as though they had little value.
    Psa 44:13 Our neighbors see what you did to us, and they mock us and laugh at us.
    Psa 44:22 But it is on your account that we are being killed all the time, that we are treated like sheep to be slaughtered.


    eto naman sa Isaiah:

    Isa 53:7 "He was treated harshly, but endured it humbly; he never said a word. Like a lamb about to be slaughtered, like a sheep about to be sheared, he never said a word.


    ayan malinaw kahit magpaikot ikot tayo sa OT hindi mo pwedeng isingit si jesus
    dahil out of context ka na... at kung meron mang messiah na nagpalaya sa israel
    mas pumapabor ito kay simon bar khokba or kay judas maccabeans dahil mas
    na-attain nila ang isang criteria ng messiah na mapalaya ang israel at talunin ang
    foreign conqueror nito na syang hindi nagawa ni jesus dahil syay pinatay hindi
    nya napatalsik ang romans sya ang kinatay nito kaya kahit isang criteria walang
    nameet si jesus to claim na sya ang jewish messiah

    maiintindihan mo lang yan kung alam mo ang historical background at setting at
    situation nung time na sinulat yung particular book sa OT.. non sense kung out
    of context ka tulad ng NT authors na hindi rin pinaniniwalaan nila jesus at apostles
    dahil hindi naman nila inabutan ang NT dahil ang bible nila ay Hebrew bible(ot) ang
    NT ay sa chritians lang sila jesus at apostles ay mga hudyo
    Last edited by aliester; 29th Apr 2012 at 13:58.

  5. #325

    Default Re: who is really JESUS?

    indeed, the bible was kept and passed down to generations after generations; translated, "modified".

    and yet, there is something about the bible that made it holy. those who take it literally are fools, if you allow me to say the word.

    anyway, i believe in Jesus, His words. (if you check the way he teaches, or, the words he say; i doubt if someone can be like him, can say things that he said with such divine authority).

    i love Jesus Christ, i stand by His name (though I have a question about people who say that they are Christians)

  6. #326

    Default Re: who is really JESUS?

    @aliester, tingnan mo nalang sa webster kung ano rin ba meaning ng jesus. palagi kong sinasabi sa forum na ito na ang bible ay kung hindi mo e-scrutinize or suriing mabuti ang maligaw ka ng pang-unawa dahil nga MAY DALAWANG MEANING PALAGI. kaya needed subsub ang pag-aaral dito...kaya palagi kung isinisingit ang isaiah 6 ang whom shall i send? i said i will go send me. god said tell them NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LOOK YO WILL NOT FIND, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LISTEN YOU WILL NOT UNDERSTAND. make da minds of these people dull,their ears deaf, and their eyes blind. IF THEY DO TURN TO ME I WILL HEALED THEM!!! aliester ito ha namatay ba ang bansang israel or people of israel? abay hindi pero si jesus namatay tapos binuhay. israel willingly gave up their live? abay hindi nakipagpatayan sila pero si jesus he willingly gave his life!! ang israel ba inaresto kahit walang kasalanan? aba si jesus yun inaresto dahil he blaspheme god daw!!! yung narrator diyan hindi ba sila jews/israelites? para bang inireport lang nila ang kanilang sarili kung ganun..god can forgive sins therefore his begotten son also can forgive sins, ang people of israel ba can forgive sins? e-analyze mo nga engg or engr ka dba? hindi tayo magkalayo dahil propesyun ko din yan... gamit muna tayo ng logic aliester nasasayang yung 5yrs na pinag-aaralan natin.

  7. #327

    Default Re: who is really JESUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by 9Ten8ti [Link available to registered users only. Click here to register.]
    @aliester, tingnan mo nalang sa webster kung ano rin ba meaning ng jesus.
    ano naman ang authority ni webster over biblical scholars sa bible?

    palagi kong sinasabi sa forum na ito na ang bible ay kung hindi mo e-scrutinize or suriing mabuti ang maligaw ka ng pang-unawa dahil nga MAY DALAWANG MEANING PALAGI. kaya needed subsub ang pag-aaral dito...
    ang problema po hindi madadaan yan sa salita lang dapat may examples tulad ng ginagawa ko kaso bawat ipost ko hindi mo binibigyan ng detailed na counter argument sasabihin mo lang lagi sa akin "dapat iniintindi ang bible aliester.." puro suggestion ka lang walang textual proof


    kaya palagi kung isinisingit ang isaiah 6 ang whom shall i send? i said i will go send me. god said tell them NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LOOK YO WILL NOT FIND, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LISTEN YOU WILL NOT UNDERSTAND. make da minds of these people dull,their ears deaf, and their eyes blind. IF THEY DO TURN TO ME I WILL HEALED THEM!!! aliester ito ha namatay ba ang bansang israel or people of israel?
    naku naman sinasabi na nga sa Book of Psalm na parallel nung nasa isaiah eh niliteral mo naman eto malinaw na sinasabi uulitin ko:

    Psa 44:22 But it is on your account that we are being killed all the time, that we are treated like sheep to be slaughtered.


    all the time pinapatay ang israel.. so ano ibig sabihin ng verse na yan literal ba? sino pinapatay dyan all the time pakisagot nga? bakit all the time? literal ba?


    abay hindi pero si jesus namatay tapos binuhay. israel willingly gave up their live? abay hindi nakipagpatayan sila pero si jesus he willingly gave his life!!
    binuhay??? haha tapos ngayon literal na binuhay si jesus... si jesus ay pinatay ng romano at inilibing.. ang paniniwalang binuhay sya ay apologetic attempt ng followers nya na sinulat sa gospels 40yrs after his death kahit si jesus hindi alam na nabuhay pala sya


    ang israel ba inaresto kahit walang kasalanan? aba si jesus yun inaresto dahil he blaspheme god daw!!!
    mali na naman.. hindi pinatay si jesus ng romans dahil sa blasphemy dahil walang pakialam ang roman law sa religious law ng jews, kaya pinatay ng romans si jesus dahil sa political assault ni jesus as King of The Jews na kasalan sa roman law dahil romans lang ang nagtatalaga ng king.. parang ganito dinala ka sa supreme court dahil ang sumbong binastos mo ang dios ng isang religion.. walang kwentang sumbong yun dahil wala sa batas na dapat ipapatay ang nagkasala ng ganun depende na lang kung rape at murder ang kaso na punishable by death sa batas ng korte.. mag-aral ka ng historical aspect ng israel ang dami mong mali @9ten8ti

    yung narrator diyan hindi ba sila jews/israelites? para bang inireport lang nila ang kanilang sarili kung ganun..god can forgive sins therefore his begotten son also can forgive sins, ang people of israel ba can forgive sins?
    saan naman nakasulat sa isaiah na yung pinahihirapan ang magpapatawad???? intindihin mo ang context.. ang author sinasabi ang paghihirap ng bansa nyang israel dahil sa kasalanan ng mga jews na nakatira syempre sa israel, ang paghihirap na yan ang punishment ng dios sa israel at yang punishment na yan ang ikapapatawad ng kasalanan nila.. wala dyang sinasabi tungkol kay jesus or sa messiah naku naman kulit there's no such thing in the OT as suffering messiah.. imbento yan ng NT writer to hide the embarrassing fact na si jesus ay pinatay lang..binigyan nila ng bagong kahulugan and reinterpretation ang meaning ng messiah na originally ay hindi magsusuffer o mamamatay o mabubuhay o may second coming.. ang messiah was a figure of grandeur and power who will lead an army to free israel from foreign ruler and establish the idependence of israel.. kahit isa dyan walang nameet si jesus
    Last edited by aliester; 29th Apr 2012 at 16:13.

  8. #328

    Default Re: who is really JESUS?

    What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:

    A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

    B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

    C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

    D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

    The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

    Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.

  9. #329

    Coffee Re: who is really JESUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by aliester [Link available to registered users only. Click here to register.]
    What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:

    A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

    B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

    C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

    D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

    The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

    Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.
    maitanong lang bago natin ipagpatuloy ang discussion.

    anti-jesus ka ba? ayaw ko sabihin na anti-christ kasi naniniwala ka na may christ yun nga lang para sayo its not jesus.

    judaism ka ba? dahil hindi taayo magkaintindihan kung puro lang old testament ang gamit mo.

    kung may new testament kang pinaniniwalaan alin doon? kailangan kung malaman para tayo magkaintindihan.

  10. #330

    Coffee Re: who is really JESUS?

    Quote Originally Posted by aliester [Link available to registered users only. Click here to register.]
    What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:

    A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

    B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

    C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

    D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

    The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

    Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.
    1. may 3rd temple naba? ahhh meron nga pero DOME OF THE ROCK!!! baka ito ibig mo sabihin na temple so pa-convert na tayo ng islam

    2. asan pa ngayon ang jews naibalik naba sa israel diba they still scattered pa to all the world?

    3. may world peace na ba? di ba gulo pa rin?

    4.sino pa bang hindi nakakaalam sa holy bible ngayon even chinese meron sila nito. at andun ang pangalang ni jesus sa holy bible. sa palagay ko ito pa lang ang may kaunting katuparan kasi hindi pa lubos tinatanggap lahat ng races..

    ngayun sino ba para sayo ang christ? nag-exist na ba or maghahanap ka pa? importanteng malaman ko ang paniniwala mo para mas madali ang discussion natin.

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