[sevenshadows]

Originally Posted by mathed1925

when we say, "we have a machine that is so powerful"
we expect someone to ask us, "powerful for what?"

and not by "why it cannot create a bottle with mineral water in it?"

LOL

Why expect a powerful time machine to create mineral water. It is logical and more reasonable to expect a powerful mineral water machine to produce mineral water.

My vehicle, a Toyota Fortuner 3.0 engine is very powerful. We expect someone to ask us, "powerful for what?"

and not by "why can it not fly?"



Interestingly enough, the answer can be found using your own story about the diary.

Originally Posted by mathed1925

but there is a problem with this story because you & the guy are within the dimension of time.
since you are in different time frame, what if, you and the guy existed in the same time frame, could that
guy knows what you will do prior to doing it?

The power of the time machine, lies on the ability to travel within the dimension of time.

You ask the question "what if, you and the guy existed in the same time frame...". I believe that is what will make the time machine powerful.

Please just don't expect mineral water. It is like asking God to be evil while having Him as the embodiment of goodness.

[sam_wel]

Originally Posted by mightymarc

agree - disagree - agree

you can say yes or no, but the likelihood of saying yes or no depends on things you cant control.

man's will is never w/o some sort of constraint.

right, but not everything are things you have no control of. there are things you can play on your palm, and you give your decisions.

there are some constraints, i agree,

but in the end of that, it's you who decides.

when you are restraint to deciding something - and you decided against what you think is right, as if you were compelled to kill a young boy, which is against your conscience, but was commanded to do so, and then you did it, then, you have no free will.

but when you did not kill the boy, even after debating upon yourself of the effect of it, then, that's still free will.

you decided against the control they had on your will.

[mightymarc]

When you decided to not kill the boy, merong nagcommand sa iyo i.e. your conscience.

conscience = constraint

with killing or not killing the boy, meron constraint ergo no free will.

@sevenshadows: di mo talaga pinalagpas ha


...

Try reading again the story of Job. If God knew what Job would do, and knew the whole story before it ever happening, whats the point of making Job suffer? Why even bother? Pwede naman nya sabihin kay Satan[adversary] na "I know that even if i take everything from him, he will remain faithful"
Are they testing God's omniscient? Because clearly its not a test on Job, since God KNOWS.

[mathed1925]

^anong hindi nya pinalagpas sir mightyM?

[mathed1925]

@7shadows

you had mentioned that "what is God?" is not the problem but "why God?"
based on the criteria of the existence of the evil & suffering.

can you give me clearer view of "why God?" is the demand question,
so that i can ponder on it & give my response.

[sam_wel]

Originally Posted by mightymarc

When you decided to not kill the boy, merong nagcommand sa iyo i.e. your conscience.

conscience = constraint

with killing or not killing the boy, meron constraint ergo no free will.

oh, i get your point. so there is not such a thing as free will.

everything, any decision you make is controlled, encumbered by something, that takes away your capacity to free will.

what about this one...

you want to buy a pig. should you buy a pig because you wanted a bright future, or just shrug your shoulder about it. If you did, then, the constraint is your future - you wanted a better future, but what about if you decided not to, where is the constraint?

...

Try reading again the story of Job. If God knew what Job would do, and knew the whole story before it ever happening, whats the point of making Job suffer? Why even bother? Pwede naman nya sabihin kay Satan[adversary] na "I know that even if i take everything from him, he will remain faithful"
Are they testing God's omniscient? Because clearly its not a test on Job, since God KNOWS.

if it did not happen, will job be learning something? i believe tht when job went through with all the problems he had, he realized something....

and if it did not happen, those christians who put their trust to god, learning from the experience of job, will have not put their trust to god.

i believe it's not about testing god's omniscience, but it is to put into record the account of jaboc, so that others could learn from his experience.

[dhanzboy]

Originally Posted by sam_wel

alter your future? why would you alter your future? is your future known to you? if you do, then, you have the capacity to alter it or not, and that is free will. YOu decide should you change it or not. That's free will.

emphasize ko ulit.

ano ba ang free will?

ang free will ay ang ABILIDAD MONG MAGDESISYON para sa sarili mo.

kahit alam ng dios ang magiging desisyon mo, hanggat hindi nya pinapakialaman ang magiging desisyon mo, FREE WILL yun. yun ang tinatawag na free will. Yung ikaw mismo ang magdesisyon para sa sarili mo.

kayat, kahit alam ng dios ang magiging desisyon, patungkol sa ibibigay nyang house and lot sa iyo, at hindi nya binago iyong kakayahan mong magdesisyon, may free will ka.

nalilito ka ata tol sa kung ano ang free will.

hayun dinefine na ni sirve ang freewill ayon kay wikepedia.

if my future is already known from the present or past, then my decision for my future is just like a movie being played again. so if I cannot alter my future on my own, then I have no free will.

so base sa mga sinasabi mo, hanggat hindi nakikialam ang maski sino ay may free will ka? pano ka mag kakaroon ng free will kung ang bawat galaw mo ay alam na? asan ang freedom to choose between alternatives without external coercion if your decision making is already pre-determined?

may anak akong maliit, naglagay ako ng chocolate sa lamesa sa kusina na madali nyang makita. ngayon alam na alam ko ng na pag pumunta sa kusina ang anak ko ay kukunin nya ang chocolate at kakainin nya. hindi ko pinakialaman ang desisyon nya, malaya sya. at that point, masasabi nating free will. pero ang stage na bago pa man makita ng anak ko ang chocolate, nilagay ko na ang chocolate sa lamesa. so it will turn out as a set up to make sure that my son will see the chocolate and take it. does that sounds free will to you? everything was arrange in the first place dahil alam ko na gusto ng anak ko ang chocolate at di yan makakapagpigil na hindi kunin. so pre-determined and desisyon nya dahil sa circumstances na naka set up to make that desisyon. you have free will at the time when you decide as it seems, but the whole thing was arranged to make that decision.

[sivre009]

Originally Posted by dhanzboy

if my future is already known from the present or past, then my decision for my future is just like a movie being played again. so if I cannot alter my future on my own, then I have no free will.

so base sa mga sinasabi mo, hanggat hindi nakikialam ang maski sino ay may free will ka? pano ka mag kakaroon ng free will kung ang bawat galaw mo ay alam na? asan ang freedom to choose between alternatives without external coercion if your decision making is already pre-determined?

may anak akong maliit, naglagay ako ng chocolate sa lamesa sa kusina na madali nyang makita. ngayon alam na alam ko ng na pag pumunta sa kusina ang anak ko ay kukunin nya ang chocolate at kakainin nya. hindi ko pinakialaman ang desisyon nya, malaya sya. at that point, masasabi nating free will. pero ang stage na bago pa man makita ng anak ko ang chocolate, nilagay ko na ang chocolate sa lamesa. so it will turn out as a set up to make sure that my son will see the chocolate and take it. does that sounds free will to you? everything was arrange in the first place dahil alam ko na gusto ng anak ko ang chocolate at di yan makakapagpigil na hindi kunin. so pre-determined and desisyon nya dahil sa circumstances na naka set up to make that desisyon. you have free will at the time when you decide as it seems, but the whole thing was arranged to make that decision.

Kaya nawalan ng freewill kasi kung baga sa Dyos may divine intervention.
If this Omniscience God will not in any ways, to do anything to control anything that will affect you,
Then this omniscience God is merely an observer.

[jobe12]

i believe free will is greatest gift to mankind,, so simple lng,, watever dcsi0ns and ch0ices u make in ur lyf wil determine ur faith,, but god wil always enc0urage u to follow his way and his words that make u decide to choose him... God is always der wit u to guide u to make dat right or best dcsi0n 4u,only f u listen...

[manfred]

freewill is just 'follow your dreams', assuming it is for your own good and of others.failure is not an option,because firstly it contradicts the first.if it fails ,maybe its because were not omniscient,maybe because we dont have the capacity.