Ano ang doktrina ng nawawalang kaligtasan o conditional security?

[serialkey07]

Ang may kundisyong kaligtasan o conditional security ay isang termino sa teolohiya na may kaugnayan sa kaligtasan ng mga nananampalataya kay Hesu Kristo. Inilalarawan nito ang mga kundisyon sa pagpapanatili ng kaligtasan ng isang Kristiyano. Sa ibang salita, ang kaligtasan ng isang Kristiyano ay tiyak ngunit may mga kundisyon. Naguudyok ito ng isang katanungan: Ano ang mga kundisyon upang mapanatili ng isang Kristiyano ang kanyang kaligtasan? Ipinahahayag ng mga nanghahawak sa katuruang ito na ang kaligtasan ay nakasalalay sa “pananatiling tapat hanggang wakas” ng isang Kristiyano. Kung gagamitin ang isang paglalarawan sa Bibliya, dapat diumanong tapusin ng isang atleta ang karera upang makatanggap siya ng gantimpala. Ginagamit ng mga naniniwala sa doktrinang ito ang mga sumusunod na talata upang suportahan ang kanilang paniniwala:

“Marami ang magpapanggap na propeta at ililigaw ang mga tao. Ang kasamaa'y lalaganap, kaya't manlalamig ang pag-ibig ng marami. Ngunit ang mananatiling tapat hanggang wakas ang siyang maliligtas” (Mateo 24:11-13)

“Mga kapatid, hindi na tayo alipin ng likas na hilig ng laman kaya hindi na tayo dapat mamuhay ayon sa katawang makalaman. Sapagkat mamamatay kayo kung namumuhay kayo sa katawang makalaman, ngunit kung pinapatay ninyo sa pamamagitan ng Espiritu ang mga gawa ng katawang makalaman, mabubuhay kayo. Ang lahat ng pinapatnubayan ng Espiritu ng Diyos ay mga anak ng Diyos” (Romans 8:12-14)

“Mga kapatid, ngayo'y ipinapaalala ko sa inyo ang Magandang Balitang ipinangaral ko sa inyo. Iyan ang Magandang Balitang inyong tinanggap at naging saligan ng inyong pananampalataya. Naligtas kayo sa pamamagitan nito, kung matatag ninyong pinanghahawakan ang salitang ipinangaral ko sa inyo; dahil kung hindi, walang kabuluhan ang inyong pananampalataya” (1 Corinto 15:1-2)

“Huwag ninyong akalaing madadaya ninyo ang Diyos. Kung ano ang itinanim ng tao, iyon din ang kanyang aanihin. Ang sumusunod sa nasa ng kanyang laman ay mag-aani ng kapahamakan. Ngunit ang sumusunod naman sa Espiritu ay mag-aani ng buhay na walang hanggan. Kaya't huwag tayong magsawa sa paggawa ng mabuti; pagdating ng takdang panahon tayo ay aani kung hindi tayo magsasawa” (Galatians 6:7-9).

Ang mga talatang ito at iba pang mga talata ay tila nagtuturo na may kundisyon ang kaligtasan ng mga mananampalataya. Sa bawat isa sa mga talatang ito, gumagamit ang manunulat sa inspirasyon ng Banal na Espiritu, ng mga salitang naglalarawan ng kundisyon (halimbawa: Sapagkat mamamatay kayo kung namumuhay kayo sa laman) upang bigyang diin ang kalikasan ng katiyakan ng kaligtasan ng mananampalataya. Ayon sa pananaw na ito, upang matiyak ang kaligtasan, ang mga mananampalataya ay dapat na, 1) manatiling tapat hanggang wakas; 2) mamuhay sa Espiritu; 3) manghawak sa Salita ng Diyos; at 4) mamunga sa Espiritu. Hindi nangangahulugan na kulang ang kaloob na kaligtasan, ngunit nararapat na ang indibidwal na mananampalataya ay magsikap na maging tapat hanggang wakas. Sa ibang salita ni Apostol Pablo, “Kaya nga, mga minamahal, tulad ng inyong buong-pusong pagsunod noong ako'y kasama pa ninyo, lalo kayong maging masunurin ngayong ako'y malayo sa inyo. Pagsumikapan ninyong maging ganap ang inyong kaligtasan nang may lubusang paggalang at pag-ibig sa Diyos” (Filipos 2:12).

Kung titimbangin ang mga ebidiensya sa Bibliya, tila ang pananaw tungkol sa pagkawala ng kaligtasan ay hindi kayang pabulaanan. Paano makikipagtalo ang isang Kristiyano sa pangangatwiran na kailangang manatiling tapat ang isang mananampalataya upang matiyak ang kanyang kaligtasan? Ngunit may isa pang pananaw sa debateng ito. Ito ang napakatagal ng debate sa pagitan ng mga Arminians (mga naniniwala na maaring mawala ang kaligtasan ng mananampalataya) at ng mga Calvinists (mga naniniwala na hindi kailanman mawawala ang kaligtasan ng mga mananampalataya). Kung makakapagbigay ang mga Arminians ng mga talata sa Bibliya na sumusuporta sa pagkawala ng kaligtasan, makakapagbigay din ang mga Calvinists ng mga talata na magpapatunay na hindi nawawala ang kaligtasan gaya ng mga sumusunod:

“Sapagka't may magsisilitaw na mga bulaang Cristo, at mga bulaang propeta, at mangagpapakita ng mga dakilang tanda at mga kababalaghan; ano pa't ililigaw, kung maaari, pati ng mga hirang” (Mateo 24:24)

“Sapagka't ako'y naniniwalang lubos, na kahit ang kamatayan man, kahit ang buhay, kahit ang mga anghel, kahit ang mga pamunuan, kahit ang mga bagay na kasalukuyan, kahit ang mga bagay na darating, kahit ang mga kapangyarihan, Kahit ang kataasan, kahit ang kababaan, kahit ang alin mang ibang nilalang, ay hindi makapaghihiwalay sa atin sa pagibig ng Dios, na nasa kay Cristo Jesus na Panginoon natin” (Roma 8:38-39).

“At sila'y binibigyan ko ng walang hanggang buhay; at kailan ma'y hindi sila malilipol, at hindi sila aagawin ng sinoman sa aking kamay. Ang aking Ama, na sa kanila ay nagbigay sa akin, ay lalong dakila kay sa lahat; at hindi sila maaagaw ninoman sa kamay ng Ama” (Juan 10:28-29).

“Na sa kaniya'y kayo rin naman, pagkarinig ng aral ng katotohanan, ng evangelio ng inyong kaligtasan, na sa kaniya rin naman, mula nang kayo'y magsisampalataya, ay kayo'y tinatakan ng Espiritu Santo, na ipinangako, Na siyang patotoo sa ating mana, hanggang sa ikatutubos ng sariling pag-aari ng Dios, sa ikapupuri ng kaniyang kaluwalhatian” (Efeso 1:13-14).

Marami pang mga talata na nagbibigay ng detalye sa hindi pagkawala ng kaligtasan ng mga tunay na mananampalataya ang maaaring banggitin. Para sa bawat talata sa itaas, isa ang katangi tangi – ang walang hanggang katiyakan ng kaligtasan ng mananampalataya ay walang kinalaman at hindi nakasalalay sa pagsisikap ng mananampalataya kundi sa mabiyayang pagiingat ng Diyos, samantalang ang mga naniniwala naman na nawawala ang kaligtasan ay tila nakatuon sa kakayahan ng mananampalataya na manatiling tapat hanggang wakas.

Ano ang ating sasabihin sa bagay na ito? Pareho bang itinuturo ng Bibliya na ang kaligtasan ay nawawala at hindi nawawala? Ang sagot ay “hindi.” Ngunit kailangan nating pagkasunduin ang mga talata na nagtuturo ng pananatiling tapat ng mga mananampalataya sa mga talata na nagtuturo na iniingatan ng Diyos ang mga mananampalataya hanggang wakas. Malalaman ang sagot sa katanungang ito sa pagunawa sa mga tinatawag ng mga teologo na “mga Doktrina ng Biyaya” (Doctrines of Grace). Ang mga doktrinang ito ay tinatawag din na Limang Puntos ng Calvinism o Five Points of Calvinism (na isang maling tawag dahil hindi itinuro ni Calvin ang lima lamang puntos). Narito ang maiksing pagpapaliwanag tungkol sa mga Doktrina ng Biyaya:

Total Depravity o radikal na kawalan ng kakayahan ng tao na iligtas ang sarili – Dahil sa orihinal na kasalanan, ang tao ay sinilang na lubos na makasalanan, hindi humahanap sa Diyos, at walang anumang kakayahan na bigyang kasiyahan ang Diyos.

Unconditional Election o walang kundisyong pagpili ng Diyos. Dahil sa pagiging lubos na makasalanan ng tao, gumawa ng paraan ang Diyos upang tiyakin ang kaligtasan ng mga mananampalataya. Ginawa Niya ito sa pamamagitan ng walang kundisyong pagpili sa kanila (walang kahit anong ambag ang tao) para sa kaligtasan.

Limited Atonement o limitadong pagtubos. Upang matanggap ng Diyos ang kanyang mga hinirang para sa kaligtasan, kailangang isagawa ang pagtubos upang mapawi ang poot ng Diyos sa kanilang mga kasalanan. Ginawa ito ng Diyos sa pamamagitan ng paghahandog ng buhay ng Kanyang Anak na si Hesu Kristo.

Irresistible Grace o hindi natatanggihang biyaya ng Diyos: Inilalapat ng Diyos ang merito ng kaligtasang ito sa “takdang panahon” sa pamamagitan ng hindi natatanggihang paglalapit sa Kanyang mga hinirang kay Kristo sa pamamagitan ng kapanganakang muli sa kapangyarihan ng Banal na Espiritu. Isinasakatuparan ito ng Diyos sa pamamagitan ng pangangaral ng Ebanghelyo.

Perseverance of the Saints o pagpapatuloy ng mga tunay na ligtas hanggang wakas: Magaganap ang pagliligtas ng Diyos sa mga mananampalataya dahil iingatan Niya sila at pababanalin hanggang wakas.

Upang masuri kung nawawala ba o hindi ang kaligtasan ng Kristiyano, kailangang munawaan ang bawat puntos ng Doktrina ng Biyaya. Ang Perseverance of the Saints o pagpapatuloy ng mga tunay na ligtas hanggang wakas ay hindi nagiisang doktrina kundi nakasalalay sa iba pang mga puntos. Ang pundasyon ng Doktrina ng Biyaya ay ang unang puntos, ang Total Depravity o radikal na kawalan ng kakayahan ng tao na iligtas ang sarili, na kung totoo, ang iba pang puntos ay natural na susunod. Maliwanag na itinuturo ng Bibliya na ang tao, sa kanyang sarili, ay walang kahit anumang kakayahan na lumapit sa Diyos para sa kanyang kaligtasan (Mateo 19:25-26; Juan 6:44; Roma 3:10-18).

Sinasabi ng mga kritiko ng Calvinism at ng mga Doktrina ng Biyaya na kung ituturo natin ang doktrinang ito, hindi na magsisikap ang tao na gumawa ng mabubuting gawa. Sa ibang salita, kung ang kaligtasan ay hindi nawawala kailanman, ano pa ang pipigil sa mananampalataya upang hindi sadyaing magkasala? Itinanong din kay Pablo ang parehong tanong sa Roma 6:1. Sumagot si Pablo na walang lugar ang kasalanan sa sa bagong buhay kay Kristo (Roma 6:2-4). Sa halip na maging lisensya sa pagkakasala, ang Doktrina ng Biyaya ay lalo pang naghihikayat sa paggawa ng mabuti kaysa sa doktrina na nawawala ang kaligtasan. Kilala ang mga Puritans na karamihan ay mga Calvinists sa kanilang paggawa ng mabuti at istriktong debosyon sa banal na pamumuhay. Sa Calvinism, ang paggawa ng mabuti ay isang tugon ng mananampalataya bilang pasasalamat para sa kahanga-hangang biyaya ng pagliligtas ng Diyos (Roma 12:1-2). Kung ituturo ng tama at paniniwalaan ang mga doktrinang ito, ang mabubuting gawa ay tugon lamang ng mananampalataya at pagpapakita ng kanyang tunay na pag-ibig sa ating mabiyayang Diyos na umibig sa atin ng gayon na lamang at nagligtas sa atin mula sa ating mga kasalanan. Ang Heidelberg Catechism (ang isa sa pinakaunang dokumento ng kapahayagan ng pananampalataya ng Repormasyong Protestante at isang manwal sa pagtuturo sa mga bata at bagong mananampalataya) ay nahahati sa tatlong bahagi: Ang Paghihirap ng Tao (ang ating makasalanang kalagayan); Ang pagliligtas sa Tao (Ang mabiyayang gawa ng pagliligtas ng Diyos sa tao sa pamamagitan ni Hesu Kristo); at ang Pasasalamat ng Tao (ang ating tugon sa biyaya ng Diyos, kung saan nakalista ang mga tungkulin bilang mga Kristiyano).

Kaya kung ating tatanggapin ang katotohanan ng mga Doktrina ng Biyaya, paano natin ipapaliwanag ang mga talata na tila nagtuturo na nawawala ang kaligtasan? Ito ang isang maiksing sagot: Tayo (mga mananampalataya) ay nagtitiyaga (nanatiling tapat hanggang wakas) dahil iniingatan tayo ng Diyos. Kung ilalarawan sa ibang paraan, kung wala tayong nagawang anuman upang makamit ang ating kaligtasan (dahil ang kaligtasan ay libreng kaloob ng Diyos), paano natin maiwawala ang ating kaligtasan sa pamamagitan ng gawa? Ang doktrina na nawawala ang kaligtasan ay katanggap-tanggap para lamang sa mga naniniwala na may naiambag din sila sa kanilang kaligtasan (na lohikal na ipinagpapalagay ng mga Arminians). Ngunit salungat ito sa mga talata sa Bibliya gaya ng Efeso 2:8-9: “Sapagkat dahil sa kagandahang-loob ng Diyos kayo ay naligtas sa pamamagitan ng pananampalataya; at ang kaligtasang ito'y kaloob ng Diyos at hindi sa pamamagitan ng inyong sarili; hindi ito bunga ng inyong mga gawa kaya't walang dapat ipagmalaki ang sinuman.” Ang talatang ito ay malinaw na nagpapahayag na wala tayong ambag ni katiting man sa ating kaligtasan; at kahit na ang pananampalataya na kinakailangan sa pagtanggap ng biyaya mg kaligtasan ay mismong kaloob din ng Diyos.

Binibigyan ng Arminianism ang tao ng dahilan upang magmalaki. Kung sa pamamagitan ng aking kooperasyon sa Banal na Espiritu ay nanatili akong tapat hanggang wakas, makapagmamalaki ako (ng kahit kaunti) kung paano ako nanatili sa aking takbuhin at nakatapos sa karera. Gayunman, wala ng pagmamalaki sa langit maliban sa pagmamalaki sa Panginoon (1 Corinto 1:31). Ang doktrina na nawawala ang kaligtasan ay hindi ayon sa Bibliya. Malinaw ang itinuturo ng Bibliya na mananatili tayong tapat hanggang wakas dahil iingatan tayo ng Diyos hanggang wakas.

 

[rofin]

serialkey07 , are you the one who made this affirmation? Or did you just copied it and posted it here? Have you tried consulting the holy spirit within you to find the truth? Based from your statement I can consider myself in the group of Arminians, btw is your statement related to OSAS or Once Saved Always Save? Hope we can clear things out and find the truth about this important topic that might get us in the wrong side in the world to come which is unpleasant while otherwise is much better.

 

[serialkey07]

serialkey07 , are you the one who made this affirmation? Or did you just copied it and posted it here? Have you tried consulting the holy spirit within you to find the truth? Based from your statement I can consider myself in the group of Arminians, btw is your statement related to OSAS or Once Saved Always Save? Hope we can clear things out and find the truth about this important topic that might get us in the wrong side in the world to come which is unpleasant while otherwise is much better.

Hindi po. Dito po yan galing,"gotquestions.org " share ko lang po.
Yes po. related sa OSAS. Kung minsan nang naligtas, ligtas na ba magpakailan pa man?
Pasensya, hindi ako masyadong makaintindi ng Ingles

 

[ihateu2]

panu m malalaman na ligtas ka>>??

 

[FinEsT]

yes, dahil yan ang gawa ng diyos, hindi ng tao genesis 3:1-6 nadaya ang tao sa magagandang kasinungalingan ng diyablo(satanas) na hindi sila mamamatay, mag kakaroon ng kaalaman, at magiging parang diyos,..kaya bawat isa ngayun ay naging diyos sa kanyang sarili at may kanya kanyang prinsipyo o pride.. agad nangako ang diyos ng sulusyon gen 3:15( He ). nakalimutan ng paglipas ng panahon kaya pinaalala ni Isaiah 7:14, at natupad sa matthew 1:20->kaya sa john 19:30 it is finished, ibig sabihin kahit anong mabubuting gawa ng tao ay wala itong connection sa salvation, dahil acts 4:12, at john 14:6.

kung ang kaligtasan naka depende sa gawa, hindi na kailangang mag alay ang panginoong jesus cristo ng kanyang buhay bilang kabayaran...
kung ang babatayan mo naman ay ang sinabi ni james 2:14-26 na faith is dead without works, yes, it is true, if you really have faith in the lord Jesus, you will accept him and be your LORD and savior, Gal 2:20. you are dead already,
ang pananampalataya ay biyaya rin ng diyos or bunga nang kanyang grace sa atin. Ephesians 2:8-10..

ang tanong totoo bang nanampalataya ka sa panginoon nung tinangap mo siya, or basta lang tinangap mo siya dahil sabi nila,?
ikaw ang makakasagot niyan.

tangapin mo siya sa puso, hindi sa nguso lang...

- - - Updated - - -

panu m malalaman na ligtas ka>>??

john 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
romans 10:13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

ito sagot sa tanong mo sir, malalaman mong ligtas ka kung tunay mong tinangap ang panginoong jesus.
john 1:12 ikaw ay may karapatang maging anak ng diyos pag tinangap mo ang panginoong jesus.
kung ikaw ay may faith sa mga verses nayan then,, ang iyung katanongan ay nasagot na.

 

[kurungkoy23]

Sabi sa John 10

verse 27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - KILALA TAYO NG DYOS BILANG LIGTAS AT MGA ANAK NYA.

verse 28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall NEVER PERISH, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. - HAWAK TAYO NG DYOS ANAK.

verse 29 - My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. - AT HAWAK PA TAYO NG DYOS AMA

Karagdagan pa, ayon sa verses 28 and 29, walang maaaring umagaw sa atin sa kamay ng Dyos Anak at Dyos Ama na humahawak sa atin.

Samakatuwid, we have eternal security.

 

[KaoPaiTek]

walang ganyan na doktrina na nawawalang kaligtasan.

Jesus is the Answer bro .

 

[rofin]

walang ganyan na doktrina na nawawalang kaligtasan.

Jesus is the Answer bro .

Bro take a look at this scripture, then tell me if it is not conditional

1 Thessalonians 3:7,8

“Therefore BRETHREN, we were comforted over you in all our affliction and distress by your FAITH: for NOW we live IF you STAND FAST in the Lord."

-true also yung kabaligtaran ng verse na ito which means "if you don`t stand fast in the Lord we don`t have life.

 

[PobrengAlin]

Tagal na ng post na 'to, pero allow me to share my insights... Ang sabi ng post, base sa naging conclusion, is that hindi mawawala ang kaligtasan. Simply because kung ang pagkakaligtas sa atin ay hindi naman talaga tayo ang may gawa, so wala talaga tayong maiaambag para maligtas or manatiling ligtas.

Para sa'kin it's WRONG. I FIRMLY DISAGREE.

Can you still remember the "Parable of the Talents", in Matthew 25:14–30?

It's the perfect example kung ano ang kaligtasang ating natanggap...at kung anong mangyayari sa'tin pagdating ng Diyos kung mali ang pag-unawa natin sa kaligtasang ating natanggap.

"Ang Talinghaga Patungkol sa Talento"

Ito ay katulad din sa isang lalaking papaalis ng bansa. Tinawag niya ang kaniyang mga alipin at ipinagkatiwala sa kanila ang kaniyang mga ari-arian. 15 Ibinigay niya sa isang alipin ang limang talento, sa isa pang alipin ay dalawang talento at sa isa pang alipin ay isang talento. Binigyan niya ang bawat isa ayon sa kani-kaniyang kakayanan. Siya ay umalis agad ng bansa. 16 Siya na nakatanggap ng limang talento ay nangalakal at tumubo ng lima pang talento. 17 Gayundin ang nakatanggap ng dalawang talento, siya ay tumubo ng dalawa pa. 18 Ngunit siya na nakatanggap ng isang talento ay umalis. Siya ay naghukay sa lupa at itinago ang salapi ng kaniyang panginoon.

19 Pagkatapos ng mahabang panahon, dumating ang Panginoon ng mga aliping iyon at sila ay nagbigay-sulit sa kaniya. 20 Dumating ang nakatanggap ng limang talento at nagdala siya ng lima pang talento. Sinabi niya: Panginoon, ipinagkatiwala mo sa akin ang limang talento. Narito, bukod dito ay tumubo pa ako ng lima.

21 Sinabi ng kaniyang panginoon sa kaniya: Magaling ang iyong ginawa. Ikaw ay mabuti at tapat na alipin. Naging tapat ka sa kakaunting bagay. Pamamahalain kita sa maraming mga bagay. Pumasok ka sa kagalakan ng iyong panginoon.

22 Dumating din ang nakatanggap ng dalawang talento. Sinabi niya: Ipinagkatiwala mo sa akin ang dalawang talento. Tingnan mo, bukod dito ay tumubo pa ako ng dalawa.

23 Sinabi ng kaniyang panginoon sa kaniya: Magaling ang iyong ginawa. Ikaw ay mabuti at tapat na alipin. Naging tapat ka sa kakaunting bagay. Pamamahalain kita sa maraming bagay. Pumasok ka sa kagalakan ng iyong panginoon.

24 Dumating din ang nakatanggap ng isang talento. Sinabi niya: Panginoon, kilala kita na ikaw ay isang malupit na tao. Umaani ka sa hindi mo inihasik at nagtitipon sa hindi mo ikinalat. 25 Dahil sa takot, ako ay umalis at itinago ang iyong talento sa lupa. Narito ang para sa iyo.

26 Sumagot ang kaniyang panginoon: Ikaw ay masama at tamad na alipin! Nalalaman mo na ako ay umaani sa hindi ko inihasik at nagtitipon sa hindi ko ikinalat. 27 Nararapat sana na inilagay mo ang aking salapi sa mga mamamalit ng salapi. At sa aking pagdating ay tatanggapin ko ang aking salapi na may tubo.

28 Kunin nga sa kaniya ang talento at ibigay sa kaniya na may sampung talento. 29 Ito ay sapagkat ang bawat mayroon ay bibigyan at siya ay tatanggap ng sagana. Ngunit sa kaniya na wala, maging ang nasa kaniya ay kukunin sa kaniya. 30 Ang walang silbing alipin ay itatapon sa kadiliman sa labas. Doon ay may pananangis at pagngangalit ng mga ngipin.
​

Conclusion: Ang kaligtasan ay regalo, ingatan mo at palaguin. Wala kang gagawin is equals to zero life.

 

[kurungkoy23]

If we only apply dispensation to these Biblical issues, mas magiging simple ang ating pagkakaunawa sa usaping kaligtasan.

Una, dapat po nating intindihin na sa panahon ng Old Testament Saints, maliban sa faith, ay dapat pong masangkapan ng gawa o works upang maligtas noong panahon na iyon. Huwag po nating kalimutan na sila po ay sumasailalim sa batas, or otherwise known as the Dispensation of Law.

Nang si Hesus ay namatay, nilibing at nabuhay muli pagkaraan ng tatlong araw ayon sa Banal na Kasulatan, doon po nagsimula ang Dispensation of Grace kung saan wala nang pagkakaiba sa mga Hudyo at mga Gentil. Kung ang tao ay tumanggap kay Kristo, sila ay kikilalaning mga Kristyano na bahagi na sa Katawan ni Kristo, na kung saan, sila ay naligtas sa biyaya, sa pamamagitan ng pananampalataya kay Kristo, walang gawa (Efeso 2:8-9; Galatia 2:16; Tito 3:5).

Sa usapin naman ng nawawalang kaligtasan, malinaw po ang isinasaad sa Juan 10:

verse 27 - "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" - KILALA TAYO NG DYOS BILANG LIGTAS AT MGA ANAK NYA.

verse 28 - "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall NEVER PERISH, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." - HAWAK TAYO NG DYOS ANAK.

verse 29 - "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." - AT HAWAK PA TAYO NG DYOS AMA

Karagdagan pa, ayon sa verses 28 and 29, walang maaaring umagaw sa atin sa kamay ng Dyos Anak at Dyos Ama na humahawak sa atin.

Maging sa Roma 8:

verse 38 - "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,"

verse 39 - "Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Kung atin pong uunawaing mabuti ang mga talatang ito, mawawala po ang ating alinlangan sa ating kaligtasan. Uulitin ko po, hindi po nawawala ang kaligtasan. Kung tunay kang tumanggap kay Kristo, ikaw ay ligtas na, no if's no but's.

Samakatuwid, hindi po nawawala ang kaligtasan.

 

[rofin]

Samakatuwid, hindi po nawawala ang kaligtasan.

Ito ay para lamang sa mga christian applicable na patuloy na naniniwala kay Lord Jesus, and remember hindi lang as a savior but as Lord also meaning you will follow him all his commands and teachings. Now if you stand fast in the Lord or stay in the light as he is the light before you die you will be saved but if you are living in sin before you die then the Lord will say to you.

New King James Version
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

And

Look at Colossians 1:21-23


“And you that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you unblameable and unreprovable in his sight: IF YOU CONTINUE in the faith grounded and settled, and be NOT moved away from the HOPE of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.”

Notice the condition which is placed on being reconciled or saved is that, we must CONTINUE BELIEVING and NOT be moved away from our HOPE of eternal life. Also notice that it is the HOPE of eternal life, as in, a promise that is YET to come into being or manifested as yet in the world to come as a REWARD for our obedience to keep the commandment of God and not to deny Jesus as our savior. In other words, our actual obtaining of eternal life is yet in the future and is the HOPE set before us, looking forward to being attained. Now some eternal security believers argue that our reward of eternal life is not a REWARD, but in Revelation 22:11-15 Jesus tells us that he has his REWARD with him to give to every man ACCORDING to their WORK, which to me speaks of their LAST work that they will be presently engaged in AT the very moment Jesus returns. The coming of Jesus or more precisely our CHANGE from mortal to immortality will be so fast that there will NOT be time to REPEAT at the second coming of Jesus and the unjust will be judged unjust and NOT given eternal life, but those who are found to be that good and faithful servant unto the end shall be given their REWARD of eternal life.

Revelation 22:11-15.

"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my REWARD is with me, to give every man ACCORDING as his WORK shall be.
13. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14. Blessed are they that DO his commandments, THAT they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whore mongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loves and makes a lie."

 

[kurungkoy23]

Ito ay para lamang sa mga christian applicable na patuloy na naniniwala kay Lord Jesus, and remember hindi lang as a savior but as Lord also meaning you will follow him all his commands and teachings. Now if you stand fast in the Lord or stay in the light as he is the light before you die you will be saved but if you are living in sin before you die then the Lord will say to you.

New King James Version
And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

And

Look at Colossians 1:21-23


“And you that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you unblameable and unreprovable in his sight: IF YOU CONTINUE in the faith grounded and settled, and be NOT moved away from the HOPE of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.”

Notice the condition which is placed on being reconciled or saved is that, we must CONTINUE BELIEVING and NOT be moved away from our HOPE of eternal life. Also notice that it is the HOPE of eternal life, as in, a promise that is YET to come into being or manifested as yet in the world to come as a REWARD for our obedience to keep the commandment of God and not to deny Jesus as our savior. In other words, our actual obtaining of eternal life is yet in the future and is the HOPE set before us, looking forward to being attained. Now some eternal security believers argue that our reward of eternal life is not a REWARD, but in Revelation 22:11-15 Jesus tells us that he has his REWARD with him to give to every man ACCORDING to their WORK, which to me speaks of their LAST work that they will be presently engaged in AT the very moment Jesus returns. The coming of Jesus or more precisely our CHANGE from mortal to immortality will be so fast that there will NOT be time to REPEAT at the second coming of Jesus and the unjust will be judged unjust and NOT given eternal life, but those who are found to be that good and faithful servant unto the end shall be given their REWARD of eternal life.

Revelation 22:11-15.

"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12. And, behold, I come quickly; and my REWARD is with me, to give every man ACCORDING as his WORK shall be.
13. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14. Blessed are they that DO his commandments, THAT they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whore mongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loves and makes a lie."

As you quoted Matthew 7:23 - "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." KJV, and since you used New King James, the word iniquity was replaced by lawlessness.

At this point, the age or dispensation of the covenant or the law was still active, and the Gospel of the Kingdom of God was being preached by Jesus.

Iniquity or lawlessness, if you study and is aware of the age of the covenant / law, is actually applied to the Jews, not to the Body of Christ, or the Church, which we are presently in right now. Because at that time, the Jews were still under the law, and any Jew not following the law was in iniquity or lawlessness.

Thus, Jesus was talking to the Jews in context to your Matthew 7 quote, not to us.

You see, the way God handled the Jews is different from how He is handling us, Christians. The Jews' way of salvation was based on faith plus works as stated in James 2:24 - "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." Remember, James was talking to the Jews here.

Comparing it to Romans 3:28 - "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."; Romans 5:1 - "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:" and Galatians 3:24 - "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith."

Remember, we are no longer under the dispensation of the law, but we are under the dispensation of grace as what Romans 6:14 say - "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Ephesians 3:2 - "If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:"

Ephesians 2:8 - "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
Ephesians 2:9 - "Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Here's an example, a man was reported having a sexual relationship with his mother, which is indeed a horrible sin. Let's read 1 Corinthians 5:1 -

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife."

Hmmm, sounds like a serious sin indeed, but what do you think happened to this man? Was he judged to burn in hell? Let's find out in verse 5:

"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

You see, the flesh is the one condemned, but the spirit is saved. As simple as that.

And another thing, God does not see the sinful flesh that we are still in, instead, He looks at His seed implanted in us the day we were saved as what 1 John 3:9 states - "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

And when you said - "we must CONTINUE BELIEVING and NOT be moved away from our HOPE of eternal life.", isn't that works? For you to continue something is work. And what you are teaching is called Lordship salvation, which involves a person to DO something in order to acquire and maintain his salvation. That is Lordship salvation.

Again, quoting you - "and remember hindi lang as a savior but as Lord also meaning you will follow him all his commands and teachings.", once again, this is clearly works and Lordship salvation.

Galatians 2:16 plainly tells us NOT BY WORKS not only once, but THRICE! - "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

And when you quoted Revelations 22:12 - "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.", it evidently talks about rewards indended for us, which we may lose if we don't continue in God's work. So you see, it's not salvation which would be lost, but rewards, and these are two different things.

All scriptures were written FOR us, as what is said in 2 Timothy 3:16 - "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

But NOT all scriptures written is ABOUT us - 2 Timothy 2:15 - "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

So that is why it is important for us to rightly divide that word of truth. Because if we pick and mix verses from all over the scriptures and not rightly dividing it, it would give us major wrong doctrines.

You are always saved. Peace.

 

[rofin]

So are we to ignore the next verse below?

Ephesians 2:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

and regarding 1 Corinthians 5:1 below is what i believe

1 Corinthians 5: 1,5

“It is reported commonly among you that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife… To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”


Keeping the scripture in context please look at the next two verses which say,


“Your glorying is NOT good. Know you not that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? (in other words, do you not know that by your tolerating this person's sin you jeopardize yourself and the whole body of believers in your congregation to be drawn into sin as well) Purge out therefore the old leaven, that you may be a NEW lump, as you are unleavened (unleavened means being without false teaching and sin). For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us.”

When open sin appears in the church we are to not have fellowship with those that are living in sin as if they have done nothing wrong, because their sin will eventually pollute our minds as well. Therefore we must put them out of the church and consider them as not being our brethren so that their spirit MAY be saved. This is one viewpoint and fits the context as well as other scriptures, but one can readily see also that just because one is turned over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh does not always mean that he or she will without a doubt turn from his or her sin and be saved. Naturally it is our hope that they repent and are thus saved, but it is ultimately their choice to make. This is why the word of God says that they MAY be saved rather than so that they WILL be saved.
Also notice the condition that someone must turn them over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, and if they are not turned over to Satan, then for a surety they will be lost, thus disproving the “once saved always saved” point of view. The eternal security doctrine simply does not line up with the WHOLE word of God.

Look at 1 Timothy 5:16 which says,


“Take heed unto yourself, and unto the doctrine, CONTINUE in them: FOR IN DOING THIS , you shall both SAVE yourself, and them that HEAR you.”

and it says here also

Philippians 2:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[kurungkoy23]

So are we to ignore the next verse below?

Ephesians 2:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I bring back the question to you my friend, should we ignore verse 9 - "Not of works, lest any man should boast."?

and regarding 1 Corinthians 5:1 below is what i believe

1 Corinthians 5: 1,5

“It is reported commonly among you that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife… To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”

Since this is what you believe, I offer this verse to you my friend - "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." Proverbs 3:5 KJV

And with your underlined "may be saved", isn't it that "may (SPACE) be" is different from "maybe"? Do a little more research my friend.

Now, for your Philippians 2:12 quoted verse - "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

What does it mean to “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling”? Many believers will quote this verse to support the idea that we still have much personal development to do in completing what Jesus started or to make ourselves worthy and acceptable to the Lord. The idea is we need to do “works” to prove we are saved, and we need to be fearful that if we don’t do and live as God has commanded, we could be tossed into hell. If this were true, I can understand why believers would be trembling in fear while working hard to stay out of hell.

Unfortunately for these types of believers who preach a gospel of performance, this isn’t what this verse means at all. First off, salvation isn’t something you have to work for; it is a free gift from God that is received by faith. You don’t work for salvation; it works for you.

In other words my friend, not of YOUR works pa rin, because if we continue with verse 13, it clearly states that we are not the ones working good in ourselves but God: "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." which also answers above verse in Ephesians 2:10, of which is also in perfect harmony with Ephesians 2:8-9 as mentioned.

Research more my friend for you to discover that salvation cannot be lost.

 

[rofin]

I bring back the question to you my friend, should we ignore verse 9 - "Not of works, lest any man should boast."?

No we should not that is my answer, how about you should we to ignore verse 10? I mean to say it isn`t work that save US but Jesus. Now if you being saved turn back to sin would you still be saved?

Since this is what you believe, I offer this verse to you my friend - "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." Proverbs 3:5 KJV

This verse is irrelevant to the topic on hand since God already stated in the bible with simplicity on the topic of salvation that is not from works, I agree with you on that. What I am telling you is that any christian can lose their salvation.

Read this please

Hebrews 10: 35,36 says,

“ Cast not away therefore your confidence, which has great recompense of reward. For you have need of patience, that, AFTER you have DONE the WILL of God, you might RECEIVE the promise.”


Notice that it is ONLY AFTER we DO the will of God that we will RECEIVE the PROMISE of eternal life. And the opposite of this is also true, which is to say, IF we do NOT do the will of God, then we will NOT receive the promise of eternal life. Therefore our salvation is CONDITIONAL in that we are required or obligated to DO the WILL of God, which is to keep his commandments and walk in love.

And with your underlined "may be saved", isn't it that "may (SPACE) be" is different from "maybe"? Do a little more research my friend.

Yes it is very different but think this through if you use MAY are you certain of the results? Found below information from a website;

Maybe or may be:
May be is a verb phrase. Maybe is an adverb. ... Maybe is an adverb that means possibly or perhaps. May be is a verb phrase that indicates something that might happen or a potential state of affairs.
Maybe vs. May be - G-r-a-m-m-a-r.com

Meaning in the context of the verse 1 Cor. 5:5 the christian who are sinning is turned over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh does not always mean that he or she will without a doubt turn from his or her sin and be saved. Naturally it is our hope that they repent and are thus saved, but it is ultimately their choice to make. This is why the word of God says that they MAY be saved rather than so that they WILL be saved.

Now, for your Philippians 2:12 quoted verse - "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

What does it mean to “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling”? Many believers will quote this verse to support the idea that we still have much personal development to do in completing what Jesus started or to make ourselves worthy and acceptable to the Lord. The idea is we need to do “works” to prove we are saved, and we need to be fearful that if we don’t do and live as God has commanded, we could be tossed into hell. If this were true, I can understand why believers would be trembling in fear while working hard to stay out of hell.

Unfortunately for these types of believers who preach a gospel of performance, this isn’t what this verse means at all. First off, salvation isn’t something you have to work for; it is a free gift from God that is received by faith. You don’t work for salvation; it works for you.

In other words my friend, not of YOUR works pa rin, because if we continue with verse 13, it clearly states that we are not the ones working good in ourselves but God: "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." which also answers above verse in Ephesians 2:10, of which is also in perfect harmony with Ephesians 2:8-9 as mentioned.

Research more my friend for you to discover that salvation cannot be lost.

Yes I agree not of works. Take a look at this

in Titus 3:7,8

“That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the HOPE of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that you AFFIRM CONSTANTLY that they which have believed in God might be careful to MAINTAIN GOOD WORKS.”


Now the reason being that we must take heed and be careful to MAINTAIN good works is because without good works, that is to say, without living righteously before God, without OBEDIENCE to God and his word to keep his commandment, which he promises are not grievous or not burdensome, then there will be NO reward of eternal life. Please do not misunderstand what I am saying. It is not OUR OWN good works, but rather it is God doing the good works dwelling in us as we OBEY what God has commanded us to do through the power of his Holy Spirit.

 

[kurungkoy23]

No we should not that is my answer, how about you should we to ignore verse 10? I mean to say it isn`t work that save US but Jesus. Now if you being saved turn back to sin would you still be saved?





This verse is irrelevant to the topic on hand since God already stated in the bible with simplicity on the topic of salvation that is not from works, I agree with you on that. What I am telling you is that any christian can lose their salvation.

Read this please

Hebrews 10: 35,36 says,

“ Cast not away therefore your confidence, which has great recompense of reward. For you have need of patience, that, AFTER you have DONE the WILL of God, you might RECEIVE the promise.”


Notice that it is ONLY AFTER we DO the will of God that we will RECEIVE the PROMISE of eternal life. And the opposite of this is also true, which is to say, IF we do NOT do the will of God, then we will NOT receive the promise of eternal life. Therefore our salvation is CONDITIONAL in that we are required or obligated to DO the WILL of God, which is to keep his commandments and walk in love.



Yes it is very different but think this through if you use MAY are you certain of the results? Found below information from a website;

Maybe or may be:
May be is a verb phrase. Maybe is an adverb. ... Maybe is an adverb that means possibly or perhaps. May be is a verb phrase that indicates something that might happen or a potential state of affairs.
Maybe vs. May be - G-r-a-m-m-a-r.com

Meaning in the context of the verse 1 Cor. 5:5 the christian who are sinning is turned over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh does not always mean that he or she will without a doubt turn from his or her sin and be saved. Naturally it is our hope that they repent and are thus saved, but it is ultimately their choice to make. This is why the word of God says that they MAY be saved rather than so that they WILL be saved.



Yes I agree not of works. Take a look at this

in Titus 3:7,8

“That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the HOPE of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that you AFFIRM CONSTANTLY that they which have believed in God might be careful to MAINTAIN GOOD WORKS.”


Now the reason being that we must take heed and be careful to MAINTAIN good works is because without good works, that is to say, without living righteously before God, without OBEDIENCE to God and his word to keep his commandment, which he promises are not grievous or not burdensome, then there will be NO reward of eternal life. Please do not misunderstand what I am saying. It is not OUR OWN good works, but rather it is God doing the good works dwelling in us as we OBEY what God has commanded us to do through the power of his Holy Spirit.

Reward is different from eternal life. Rewards are the crowns, not eternal life:

1. The Imperishable Crown - 1 Cor. 9:24-25
2. The Crown of Rejoicing - 1 Thess. 2:19
3. The Crown of Righteousness - 2 Tim. 4:8
4. The Crown of Glory - 1 Peter 5:4
5. The Crown of Life - Rev. 2:10

You may lose these rewards, but not eternal life.

I rest my case. I presented valid points. God bless po kaibigan.

 

[PobrengAlin]

Too much words...

Let's make is it simple.

Salvation is a gift from God. So if it's a gift, of course you cannot take credit from it. But it doesn't mean hindi yun pwedeng mawala. It's a gift that requires us to take care and it should be a common sense. Whether told or not, we should be sincere to take care of what is given. God won't take away the salvation, our own recklessness, our negligence and overconfidence will.

 

[kurungkoy23]

Too much words...

Let's make is it simple.

Salvation is a gift from God. So if it's a gift, of course you cannot take credit from it. But it doesn't mean hindi yun pwedeng mawala. It's a gift that requires us to take care and it should be a common sense. Whether told or not, we should be sincere to take care of what is given. God won't take away the salvation, our own recklessness, our negligence and overconfidence will.

Romans 8:38 - "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,"
v.39 - "Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Here's more words for you pal, above verses seems to contradict your statement. Nowhere in the Bible says recklessness, our negligence and overconfidence can take away our salvation.

You did not make it simple, you just, in fact, made it more complicated. Peace.

 

[PobrengAlin]

You did not make it simple, you just, in fact, made it more complicated. Peace.[/QUOTE]

Hehe, Oo nga noh!
It's good to know that you're knowledge goes beyond the common people only interested about politics and the likes... hehe

Pero do you really know that much about God and His love? It does not end? To the extent that it will not judge?
Those verses are promising indeed. Pero yun na ba talaga yun?

 

[kurungkoy23]

You did not make it simple, you just, in fact, made it more complicated. Peace.

Hehe, Oo nga noh!
It's good to know that you're knowledge goes beyond the common people only interested about politics and the likes... hehe

Pero do you really know that much about God and His love? It does not end? To the extent that it will not judge?
Those verses are promising indeed. Pero yun na ba talaga yun?

Nobody will ever know kaibigan. God's wisdom goes beyond human comprehension. I just take heed on what the Bible tells us.

As to your question kung yun na nga yung sinasabi sa mga verses, I suggest you do your own studying kaibigan, in that way, you can even dig golden nuggets from the scriptures.