Atheists and Agnostics Meeting Place

[dhanzboy]

Ma eexplain mo ba kung bakit nangyari ang mass possession ng mga estudyante sa Davao nung pinutol lang ang isang puno? May video proof yan saka lumabas pa sa TV. thanks

I haven't seen that video yet, but I don't care.
sa ganyang mga case we can put one example like the exorcism of emily rose na base on true story ni Anneliese Michel na sa bandang huli eh napatunayan na mentally ill pala si Anneliese Michel at namatay dahil sa gutom at hindi dahil napossesed sya. sa bandang huli eh napatunayang guilty ang parents nya dahil sa kapabayaan at pati ang pari na nagperform ng exorcism ay nahatulan sa kasong negligent homicide.

 

[ervill20]

@ervill20 I'm no expert on the field, nor do I have any interest in researching the occult (which some theists try to associate with their god), I've seen too much of them in the news that I lost interest, but video proof of students squirming around ranting stuff can easily be reproduced. The level of degree in difficulty increases a little bit when we actually see the culprit (which usually is not the case) That, coupled with mass hysteria (which actually exists) can reproduce the said effect. Also, I never set aside the fact that it could've been done to get attention. But like I said, I'm no expert in the matter so don't take my word for it. i was just using logic to voice out an opinion.

On the other hand, let's compare this one with another superstition (at least in a skeptic's eyes) with a very popular legend: good ol' nessie (loch Ness monster). First picture proof of its existence gave birth to believers and some sightings. Years went by until the picture was proven to be a hoax (it was a floating log).

Then nabuhay ulit siya! Recently, they saw a ripple in Apple maps (ew) with an impression of nessie in it. Believers shat their pants, experts on nessie were called to investigate, they concluded na si nessie nga. Believers unite ulit. Later on, proven as hoax ulit siya, it was apparently a boat blurred by satellite feed to prevent people from mistaking them as landmarks.

Let's compare the two incidents. Both are subject to skepticism due to its supernatural nature, sensationalized on TV, experts were brought in to validate, evidences are there, but both can easily be reproduced by the simplest things. The nessie thing was proven as a hoax. Do you think possession related stuff can't be proven as hoaxes as well?

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post post din ako pag may time. baka mamaya kung saang sibilisasyon nanaman ako i-assign. mnyahahaha

Thanks for sharing your opinion bro. That nessie thing siguro is purely a legend puro haka haka lang kase.

Im just wondering kse sa province totoo talaga na nagyayari yun tapus naresolve lang yung mass possession after na mag alay ng hayop dun sa lugar. Something supernatural things lang na nagyare na nde ko rin kaya masagot that why i need other opinion bka may sagot sila

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I haven't seen that video yet, but I don't care.
sa ganyang mga case we can put one example like the exorcism of emily rose na base on true story ni Anneliese Michel na sa bandang huli eh napatunayan na mentally ill pala si Anneliese Michel at namatay dahil sa gutom at hindi dahil napossesed sya. sa bandang huli eh napatunayang guilty ang parents nya dahil sa kapabayaan at pati ang pari na nagperform ng exorcism ay nahatulan sa kasong negligent homicide.

Possible nga na ganun bro. Pero nakakapag taka lang kase maraming bata yung nagka ganun at sabay sabay pa and ang mga bata nag iiba ang boses and who would you ever think na ang grade 3 student nde kayang pigilan ng apat ka tao.

 

[renmazuo274]

Thanks for sharing your opinion bro. That nessie thing siguro is purely a legend puro haka haka lang kase.

Im just wondering kse sa province totoo talaga na nagyayari yun tapus naresolve lang yung mass possession after na mag alay ng hayop dun sa lugar. Something supernatural things lang na nagyare na nde ko rin kaya masagot that why i need other opinion bka may sagot sila

i view possession stories the same way.

i used to live right beside a catholic school sa tarlac, and it, along with all schools in our area do have supernatural stories on them. ghost sightings are the most common, yet i walk through the catholic school every night after ng shift ko noon since shortcut siya, not a single sighting. mass possession, meron din way back early to mid 90's. in actuality, epileptic seizure yung unang victim coupled with mass hysteria kaya dumami. meron din yung mga bata na nakakakita ng dancing sun right after ingesting a "magic powder". we also had "kumaw" are people abducting children who use their blood to bless and strengthen newly built bridges (sure it will...). the funny thing is, these dorks actually existed at one point in time, but were arrested. nuno sa punso, superstitions, marami.

 

[dhanzboy]

Possible nga na ganun bro. Pero nakakapag taka lang kase maraming bata yung nagka ganun at sabay sabay pa and ang mga bata nag iiba ang boses and who would you ever think na ang grade 3 student nde kayang pigilan ng apat ka tao.

we have to consider everything before the incident happened. meron ba silang particular place na pinuntahan? did they eat something sa labas ng school or inside school canteen that might be contaminated with drugs? or baka meron silang nainom? hindi kasi tayo pwedeng mag conclude agad dahil lang sa nangyari, we have to investigate from earlier time para malaman natin kung ano nga ba ang totoo. at tungkol naman sa lakas na sinasabi mo, pag ang tao ay naka focus lang talaga sa isang bagay ay sadyang malakas at hirap pigilan maski 5 tao pa. try to stop a mentally ill patient pag nagwawala sya at malalaman mo kung gaano sya kalakas.

 

[renmazuo274]

Possible nga na ganun bro. Pero nakakapag taka lang kase maraming bata yung nagka ganun at sabay sabay pa and ang mga bata nag iiba ang boses and who would you ever think na ang grade 3 student nde kayang pigilan ng apat ka tao.

ever tried restraining a symptomatic rabies patient (yung mamamatay na)? i once tried nung nakawala sa isolation ward yung pasyente (an 11 y/o girl, pinakawalan ng dumaan na bantay ng isa pang pasyente kasi naawa daw) and we had to restrain the poor girl kasi nagwawala. pareho kaming lalake na nakaduty that time and kahit kami nahirapan (and i'm a big, burly guy).

also, some people with epilepsy display similar strength during their seizures. and papa dhanz is right, yung mga nag-aamok na mentally ill na tao, di mo basta basta mapipigilan. why?

when people activate their fight or flight response, you won't believe how strong a person actually gets when their limiters are reduced or turned off. nasubukan mo na bang mapa-away sa isang grupo nang nag-iisa ka lang? either mawawalan ka ng lakas sa takot o mapupunta ka sa desperation mode, where in lalakas ka beyond your limits. been there several times and i can attest to that.

 

[rhymic]

When you see someone who looks possessed, it doesn't necessarily mean he is possessed. It doesn't have any solid basis at all; just assumptions. Moreover, even if an atheist cannot explain such phenomenon, it doesn't mean that theists/eye-witnesses are right.

 

[bmjut]

Pasensya na po sa late na reply @ervill20.

Tulad ng karamihan ng mga Pinoy, pinalaki akong katoliko. Nung bata pa ko, ayaw kong nagsisimba kasi di ko napapanood yung mga paborito kong morning kiddie shows. Hehehe. Sa loob ng simbahan, di ko maintindihan kung bakit ako nandun. Ang conclusion ko nung 10 yrs old ako, wala akong choice. Yun yung religion na pinili ng mga magulang ko para sa akin. Di ko choice yun. Di ko sinasabing masama yung napasukan ko, nafeel ko lang na dapat sa tamang gulang ka mamimili kung aanib ka sa isang religious organization o hindi.

Marami na kong doubts about sa belief, di lang sa Christianity. Ang ugat nito eh yung mga matatandang mahilig tumambay sa simbahan. Dun ko unang narealize na di lahat ng relihiyoso ay mabubuting tao. Sila pa yung pinaka-judgemental at pinaka-self-important na taong alam ko (tinutukoy ko po dito yung mga matatandang nakikita ko sa parokya namin).

high school ako nung napansin ko na "undebatable" na topic ang religion. Actually napasama ako kasi may napikon na taga-INC sa kin. Nagpasorry ako pero di nya matanggal na na-criticize ko yung belief nya/nila. Though malinaw ako na sa mga constituents ako may issue. Hay.

Freshman ako sa College nung nagkatake ako ng Logic101. Dun ko unang nalaman yung kwento behind sa Crusades. Out of curiosity, niresearch ko yung topic. Ayoko kasing ma-influence ako masyado ng prof ko eh kaya gumawa ako ng independent na research. Medyo nakakabahala sa kin yung mga nalaman ko about sa crusades. Much more yung history behind sa Friday the 13th (hindi dahil kay Jason, hehehe)

Mula dun, napunta ako sa Mithraism, Egyptian mythology, etc. Mahirap itanggi na ang mga pagan systems of belief na pine-predate ang Christianity, ay may napakaraming "glaring" resemblances sa Christianity mismo. Dagdag pa dito yung role ng pope sa iba't ibang era, kahit ngayon.

Dito na siguro ako naging interested sa Science in general. Kaya napadaan ako sa Psychology. Isang importanteng bagay yung natutunan ko dito. Humans are primed to look beyond themselves and look for somebody greater than themselves. Isa itong psychological need.
Napadaan din ako sa Evolutionary Science. Malaking influence sa kin sina Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris at syempre, si Charles Darwin. Firm believer ako ng evolutionary science.

Though ang bawat religion may teachings on how to lead a good life, defining the purpose of life, etc., ultimately, human ideals sila na tinatarget yung psychological needs natin. And historically, ang facade ng mga religion is to "unite people in the name of god" pero time and time again, it is used to centralize control.

Marami pa kong dahilan beyond dito pero baka maging mainit na masyado yung discussion.
Hopefully, di tayo ma-incriminate based lang sa system of beliefs natin. After all, even non-believers aspire to lead a good life.

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Hmm... ayan na naman ang mahiwagang sapi na yan.

Ang akin lang, ang culture ng mga pinoy ay mayaman sa supersition at katatakutan.

When you see someone who looks possessed, it doesn't necessarily mean he is possessed. It doesn't have any solid basis at all; just assumptions. Moreover, even if an atheist cannot explain such phenomenon, it doesn't mean that theists/eye-witnesses are right.

I agree, puro lang kase assumptions. Sa tingin ko ke believer o non-believer di maeexplain ng maayos yan kasi walang nagtatangkang gumawa ng intensive na investigation. Maraming bagay na di pa rin maexplain kasi di pa naiinvestigate ng maayos.

 

[ervill20]

Pasensya na po sa late na reply @ervill20.

Tulad ng karamihan ng mga Pinoy, pinalaki akong katoliko. Nung bata pa ko, ayaw kong nagsisimba kasi di ko napapanood yung mga paborito kong morning kiddie shows. Hehehe. Sa loob ng simbahan, di ko maintindihan kung bakit ako nandun. Ang conclusion ko nung 10 yrs old ako, wala akong choice. Yun yung religion na pinili ng mga magulang ko para sa akin. Di ko choice yun. Di ko sinasabing masama yung napasukan ko, nafeel ko lang na dapat sa tamang gulang ka mamimili kung aanib ka sa isang religious organization o hindi.

Marami na kong doubts about sa belief, di lang sa Christianity. Ang ugat nito eh yung mga matatandang mahilig tumambay sa simbahan. Dun ko unang narealize na di lahat ng relihiyoso ay mabubuting tao. Sila pa yung pinaka-judgemental at pinaka-self-important na taong alam ko (tinutukoy ko po dito yung mga matatandang nakikita ko sa parokya namin).

high school ako nung napansin ko na "undebatable" na topic ang religion. Actually napasama ako kasi may napikon na taga-INC sa kin. Nagpasorry ako pero di nya matanggal na na-criticize ko yung belief nya/nila. Though malinaw ako na sa mga constituents ako may issue. Hay.

Freshman ako sa College nung nagkatake ako ng Logic101. Dun ko unang nalaman yung kwento behind sa Crusades. Out of curiosity, niresearch ko yung topic. Ayoko kasing ma-influence ako masyado ng prof ko eh kaya gumawa ako ng independent na research. Medyo nakakabahala sa kin yung mga nalaman ko about sa crusades. Much more yung history behind sa Friday the 13th (hindi dahil kay Jason, hehehe)

Mula dun, napunta ako sa Mithraism, Egyptian mythology, etc. Mahirap itanggi na ang mga pagan systems of belief na pine-predate ang Christianity, ay may napakaraming "glaring" resemblances sa Christianity mismo. Dagdag pa dito yung role ng pope sa iba't ibang era, kahit ngayon.

Dito na siguro ako naging interested sa Science in general. Kaya napadaan ako sa Psychology. Isang importanteng bagay yung natutunan ko dito. Humans are primed to look beyond themselves and look for somebody greater than themselves. Isa itong psychological need.
Napadaan din ako sa Evolutionary Science. Malaking influence sa kin sina Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris at syempre, si Charles Darwin. Firm believer ako ng evolutionary science.

Though ang bawat religion may teachings on how to lead a good life, defining the purpose of life, etc., ultimately, human ideals sila na tinatarget yung psychological needs natin. And historically, ang facade ng mga religion is to "unite people in the name of god" pero time and time again, it is used to centralize control.

Marami pa kong dahilan beyond dito pero baka maging mainit na masyado yung discussion.
Hopefully, di tayo ma-incriminate based lang sa system of beliefs natin. After all, even non-believers aspire to lead a good life.

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Hmm... ayan na naman ang mahiwagang sapi na yan.

Ang akin lang, ang culture ng mga pinoy ay mayaman sa supersition at katatakutan.



I agree, puro lang kase assumptions. Sa tingin ko ke believer o non-believer di maeexplain ng maayos yan kasi walang nagtatangkang gumawa ng intensive na investigation. Maraming bagay na di pa rin maexplain kasi di pa naiinvestigate ng maayos.

salamat bro =)

 

[kagidka]

Paanu mo nasabi naging atheist kana? after mo makapag aral ng physics? Mostly physicist are Agnostic(God believer)kahit greatest physicist sa history they all believe in God .. Bakla lng ata atheist pag kakaalam ko. maraming scientific evidence na may God.. Its really hard to explain lalo na Tinatago ng mga mukong yung totoong history natin. lalo na nuung world war1 at 2... I'm conspiracy theorist isa na sa napapansin ko yung Catholic Church guma gamit sila ng Law of attraction peru hindi nila gina gamit sa tama..
if mag ask ka anung (connection sa law of attraction pag sa exist of God)? Yung emerald tablet..Author si Hermes Trismegistus.. bakit ang tao lng ay may kakayahan at pinaka matalino nilalang sa mundo..naka pag aral kanaman ng physics kng na inherit ng Dios sa atin ang isa sa kapangyarihan nya mag isip
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."Genesis 1:27" may mathematical formula sa creation.. Its not like you throw a stick then nag create agad ng Life d2.. may nag architect saatin intelligent design.. kaya wag nyu sabihin nag trigger lng ang life accidentally d2 sa mundo..

na isip ko lng paanu ma heal yong wounds ng isang tao.. yung tina tawag ng enzymes yun algorithm yun Repair and Dna Replication.. puro accurate ang mathematical sequence ang behavior... Simply May intelligent designer tayu. yung tinawag nating God!

 

[renmazuo274]

Paanu mo nasabi naging atheist kana? after mo makapag aral ng physics? Mostly physicist are Agnostic(God believer)kahit greatest physicist sa history they all believe in God .. Bakla lng ata atheist pag kakaalam ko. maraming scientific evidence na may God.. Its really hard to explain lalo na Tinatago ng mga mukong yung totoong history natin. lalo na nuung world war1 at 2... I'm conspiracy theorist isa na sa napapansin ko yung Catholic Church guma gamit sila ng Law of attraction peru hindi nila gina gamit sa tama..
if mag ask ka anung (connection sa law of attraction pag sa exist of God)? Yung emerald tablet..Author si Hermes Trismegistus.. bakit ang tao lng ay may kakayahan at pinaka matalino nilalang sa mundo..naka pag aral kanaman ng physics kng na inherit ng Dios sa atin ang isa sa kapangyarihan nya mag isip
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."Genesis 1:27" may mathematical formula sa creation.. Its not like you throw a stick then nag create agad ng Life d2.. may nag architect saatin intelligent design.. kaya wag nyu sabihin nag trigger lng ang life accidentally d2 sa mundo..

na isip ko lng paanu ma heal yong wounds ng isang tao.. yung tina tawag ng enzymes yun algorithm yun Repair and Dna Replication.. puro accurate ang mathematical sequence ang behavior... Simply May intelligent designer tayu. yung tinawag nating God!

*gasp*

I'm sorry, fellow atheist and agnostic thread lurkers... I have betrayed you... I did not know I believed in this so called God when I became an agnostic...

I... Have failed you all...

 

[pcruztemp]

may nag architect saatin intelligent design.. kaya wag nyu sabihin nag trigger lng ang life accidentally d2 sa mundo..

watchmaker argument has been debunked long ago

 

[dhanzboy]

Paanu mo nasabi naging atheist kana? after mo makapag aral ng physics? Mostly physicist are Agnostic(God believer)kahit greatest physicist sa history they all believe in God .. Bakla lng ata atheist pag kakaalam ko. maraming scientific evidence na may God.. Its really hard to explain lalo na Tinatago ng mga mukong yung totoong history natin. lalo na nuung world war1 at 2... I'm conspiracy theorist isa na sa napapansin ko yung Catholic Church guma gamit sila ng Law of attraction peru hindi nila gina gamit sa tama..
if mag ask ka anung (connection sa law of attraction pag sa exist of God)? Yung emerald tablet..Author si Hermes Trismegistus.. bakit ang tao lng ay may kakayahan at pinaka matalino nilalang sa mundo..naka pag aral kanaman ng physics kng na inherit ng Dios sa atin ang isa sa kapangyarihan nya mag isip
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."Genesis 1:27" may mathematical formula sa creation.. Its not like you throw a stick then nag create agad ng Life d2.. may nag architect saatin intelligent design.. kaya wag nyu sabihin nag trigger lng ang life accidentally d2 sa mundo..

na isip ko lng paanu ma heal yong wounds ng isang tao.. yung tina tawag ng enzymes yun algorithm yun Repair and Dna Replication.. puro accurate ang mathematical sequence ang behavior... Simply May intelligent designer tayu. yung tinawag nating God!

can you give example of this evidences you are referring to? yung scientific evidence mismo ha at wag yung galing sa bible. at para maging credible ang sinasabi mo, does this scientific evidences you are saying is approved by scientific community? please, enlighten me.

 

[pcruztemp]

can you give example of this evidences you are referring to? yung scientific evidence mismo ha at wag yung galing sa bible. at para maging credible ang sinasabi mo, does this scientific evidences you are saying is approved by scientific community? please, enlighten me.

as a conspiracy theorist he probably will say the evidence is not available therefore it was suppresses therefore its true

 

[dhanzboy]

as a conspiracy theorist he probably will say the evidence is not available therefore it was suppresses therefore its true

hmmmm......
maybe, maybe not.
but as for my request, for sure he cannot give anything with scientific evidence. baka bible verses na naman ang ibigay he he he............

 

[maxgreen0427]

kamusta Heathens..Mainit pa rin sa pinas...

 

[KRUSNANAKATALIKOD]

When you see someone who looks possessed, it doesn't necessarily mean he is possessed. It doesn't have any solid basis at all; just assumptions. Moreover, even if an atheist cannot explain such phenomenon, it doesn't mean that theists/eye-witnesses are right.

Kaya pala maraming pinatay noon during year 1500 to 1800 dahil sa sakit na epilepsy o patol dahil ang akala ng mga religious people noon napossessed ng masamang espiritu ang May sakit na epilepsy kaya karamihan sa kanila sinonog ng buhay

 

[kagidka]

Cge peru e2 lng I know everybody can understand this one... Search about acoustics and Cymatics... peru erreferrer ko rin sa bible "In the beginning was a word and the world was God. Genesis(Creation).... Makikita mo kng may dios talaga.. Pati sa paligid mo this nature may similarity,. "Water has a memory". Pag kina kausap mo tubig nag pproduced ng Geometric pattern.. Crystal snow flakes. peru dipende sa emotion at word ng tao yun pag Good Maganda ang pattern lalabas pag Bad pangit...So ask nyu anu connection n2? simply this hypothesis na discover lng 20th century(modern) days Na may bahavior pla ang tubig pag manipula gamit lng ng isip at emotion ng tao. parang telekinesis.. So bakit e2 ginagawa sa karamihan simbahan..? holly water? hindu at islam? nag ppray sila sa tubig 2000 years ago nila ginagawa yan..Tanong kayu sinu nag bibigay nang IDEa or knowledege sa Tao.? Galing sa propheta... sabhi naman ng mga propheta sa Dios galing.... TRY search about mandala the flower of life.
... Di ko pwede sabihin yung isa. dilicado po...

 

[renmazuo274]

Cge peru e2 lng I know everybody can understand this one... Search about acoustics and Cymatics... peru erreferrer ko rin sa bible "In the beginning was a word and the world was God. Genesis(Creation).... Makikita mo kng may dios talaga.. Pati sa paligid mo this nature may similarity,. "Water has a memory". Pag kina kausap mo tubig nag pproduced ng Geometric pattern.. Crystal snow flakes. peru dipende sa emotion at word ng tao yun pag Good Maganda ang pattern lalabas pag Bad pangit...So ask nyu anu connection n2? simply this hypothesis na discover lng 20th century(modern) days Na may bahavior pla ang tubig pag manipula gamit lng ng isip at emotion ng tao. parang telekinesis.. So bakit e2 ginagawa sa karamihan simbahan..? holly water? hindu at islam? nag ppray sila sa tubig 2000 years ago nila ginagawa yan..Tanong kayu sinu nag bibigay nang IDEa or knowledege sa Tao.? Galing sa propheta... sabhi naman ng mga propheta sa Dios galing.... TRY search about mandala the flower of life.
... Di ko pwede sabihin yung isa. dilicado po...

Interesting. The level of amusement I get from this one is in a whole new level compared to the ones who passed by this evil corner of Symbianize before.

But then again, as a conspiracy theorist (i know some of these myself, only a little bit more... Complex), if the one you know is as dangerous as you say, if you obtained that from any other browser aside from a certain one and through Google, you and the ones whom you got this one from should not be alive right now. Heck, if you know something that dangerous, it's best not to even drop a hint you know something. Yet you are here and in one of the hottest (and apparently closest to hell) threads here, and still alive. It's ok to remove your aluminum foil helmet and chill.

One more thing, you skip one topic onto another. You quote a biblical passage, then skip to an entirely different topic. Then onto the next then after that.

But so far, what you're hinting looks like a darker version of the ancient aliens theory.

 

[evilmerodac]

Cge peru e2 lng I know everybody can understand this one... Search about acoustics and Cymatics... peru erreferrer ko rin sa bible "In the beginning was a word and the world was God. Genesis(Creation).... Makikita mo kng may dios talaga.. Pati sa paligid mo this nature may similarity,. "Water has a memory". Pag kina kausap mo tubig nag pproduced ng Geometric pattern.. Crystal snow flakes. peru dipende sa emotion at word ng tao yun pag Good Maganda ang pattern lalabas pag Bad pangit..

"Water has a memory". Pag kina kausap mo tubig nag pproduced ng Geometric pattern

a message from the water ang sinasabi mo? hmmm..

... Di ko pwede sabihin yung isa. dilicado po...

di mo puwedeng sabihin ang ginagawa ng mga albularyo yung tubig na ipapainom sa client(victim) palihim nyang lalagyan ng laway nya.

yung kay JesuKristo, yung laway nya idinura nya sa lupa, pero di pina-inom.

ayon sa simbahang Katolika, ang ganun hiwaga ay ginagamit tulad halimbawa noong pumarito si pope John paul. hinalikan nya yung lupa, at sa ganung paraan nasasakop ng Vatikan ang isang bansa.

 

[dhanzboy]

Cge peru e2 lng I know everybody can understand this one... Search about acoustics and Cymatics... peru erreferrer ko rin sa bible "In the beginning was a word and the world was God. Genesis(Creation).... Makikita mo kng may dios talaga.. Pati sa paligid mo this nature may similarity,. "Water has a memory". Pag kina kausap mo tubig nag pproduced ng Geometric pattern.. Crystal snow flakes. peru dipende sa emotion at word ng tao yun pag Good Maganda ang pattern lalabas pag Bad pangit...So ask nyu anu connection n2? simply this hypothesis na discover lng 20th century(modern) days Na may bahavior pla ang tubig pag manipula gamit lng ng isip at emotion ng tao. parang telekinesis.. So bakit e2 ginagawa sa karamihan simbahan..? holly water? hindu at islam? nag ppray sila sa tubig 2000 years ago nila ginagawa yan..Tanong kayu sinu nag bibigay nang IDEa or knowledege sa Tao.? Galing sa propheta... sabhi naman ng mga propheta sa Dios galing.... TRY search about mandala the flower of life.
... Di ko pwede sabihin yung isa. dilicado po...

sure ka ba bro na yung sinabi mo na "In the beginning was a word and the world was God." is from genesis? baka naman from john ang tinutukoy mo?
scientifically speaking, iba ang "water memory" na sinasabi mo sa original na meaning nito.... at ang sinasabi mo na geometric pattern as of how you speak is called frequency and vibration and not from memory you are referring to...... and the rest you are saying make no sense at all for me to believe in.... got no time to search for something that does not interest me........