Atheists and Agnostics Meeting Place

[rueryuzaki]

^- may census ngayong 2015. hahaha

 

[ronell10]

^- may census ngayong 2015. hahaha

magbabahay bahay ba yan? kung ganun, nako tulog ako

 

[rueryuzaki]

^- kakabitan ng sticker yung pinto nyo

tatanungin ka kung ilan asawa mo hahaha

 

[ronell10]

^- kakabitan ng sticker yung pinto nyo

tatanungin ka kung ilan asawa mo hahaha

naku walang haharap sa kanila parang naalala ko na nga tong census na ito nung bata pa ako.

teka makabili nga ng doberman na aso

 

[rueryuzaki]

lol magparticipate ka.

ang di magparticipate, dadalawin ng mormons araw araw hahahaha

 

[ronell10]

lol magparticipate ka.

ang di magparticipate, dadalawin ng mormons araw araw hahahaha

anak ng tokwang kabayo

masisira tulog ko nyan, tulog pa nama nako pag may araw.

susumbong ko nalang kay Tulfo (nakakaadik manood sa youtube ng BItag, angas ni Ben )

 

[rueryuzaki]

btw, nagkumpisal pala ako nung isang araw --- nabwiset lang ako kasi bakit pa naging requirement yan sa kasal.

and --- ginawang negosyo pa yung kumpil -- imagine, pictures worth 500. -_-

kung hindi lang gusto ng asawa ko yung church wedding e. -_-

 

[ronell10]

btw, nagkumpisal pala ako nung isang araw --- nabwiset lang ako kasi bakit pa naging requirement yan sa kasal.

and --- ginawang negosyo pa yung kumpil -- imagine, pictures worth 500. -_-

kung hindi lang gusto ng asawa ko yung church wedding e. -_-

anong kinumpisal mo? umamin ka non-believer ka?

 

[rueryuzaki]

ay hindi pala kumpisal --- KUMPIL.

kung magkukumpisal ako and i have all day -- aamin ako.

also, ill tell him my favorite sin --- pride.

 

[renmazuo274]

I'm sorry about your worst experience with a believer, But I don't know the circumstances of your conversation why it turned out to be the worst experience of your life with a believer, Why did that OIC you talked to went ballistic? You see there are recorded conversations of Bro Eli to a non-believer an example is the video I posted, It was a healthy conversation I believe.

Now why that OIC you talked to was cheesed off? maybe because there are two types of questioning, one is you don't really know the answer to the question and the other is who already have his answer to his question but still asking just to question the answer of the one he's asking, Ika nga magkaiba kasi ang nagtatanong sa tumatanong, So maybe that's the reason why it ended up to a debate, but I was not there when it happened so I can't judge on that I'm just assuming... But don't worry we will never point a gun to you even if you mock what we believe, It is natural for humans to get angry, most likely if there are reasons to, just like you you react when you encounter dickheads as you state it right?

Now as I've said before we don't believe that atheists or agnostics are satanist you are correct that it's extreme stupidity!

About discrimination, You cannot throw that to us because at the first place, when we do charitable works or helping those are in need we never ask about their belief.

It is but natural in humans to have enemies because of the differences they have, enemies in terms of you are not mutual in principles etc. that is why there is what we call debate, arguments, etc, but not to the extent of killing those who are against what you believe.

Yes indeed first impression last, if you will only look to the mistake a person has done to you... Maybe you will not be able to appreciate the goodness in that person.

Just my thoughts...

Sorry for the late reply. Busy with work.

Now, every preacher that deals with non-believers need to prepare for one thing that most of us tackle first: the validity of the one resource christians use, the bible.

If you can't defend the bible, then there is no sense in proceeding with the doctrines, let alone try to use bible verses to answer questions.

I dunno how OICs think, or how they were taught on how to handle non-believers. Preachers are the ones who are supposed to allign their approach with questioners, not the other way around. Most inquisitive non-believers will not proceed until the first prerequisite set of questions are not answered. Of all preachers I spoke with, none of them could provide logical arguments to defend the bible, and no, you cannot say bible is beyond logic, we find that invalid for a LOT of reasons. This OIC is no different in that sense.

But unlike the other preachers, who simply said it is up to me to believe or not and stopped there, this guy proceeded with the biblical approach in defending. He kept on citing verses. It's like he is insisting on using an evidence that was already invalidated by the court. I keep on pointing out that he has not even defended the book yet. Then came even more verses. This went on until I told him that we are not getting anywhere. That's where the hulk has been unleashed.

And yes, the open-minded thingie appeared here. It's been a while so I can't remember the exact quote, but it was like he said "ang hirap sa inyong mga walang diyos, di kayo open minded". I am as open-minded as I can be, but that does not mean I will accept everything that he gives me without going through proper stages. Then the rants went on until the other guy passed by.

One might ask, maybe I acted like a douche during the discussion. No, most of us that actually go to preachers discuss things quite nicely. We ask question, we get answers. Whether we find the answer acceptable or not, we will tell them that and the reason why, we ask more questions, but no side comments towards the preacher, or the answer (at least not in front of the preacher). I do things that way too. I even thank them for their time in the end. The ADD guy was the only preacher among all I've spoken to who acted like that.

 

[ronell10]

ay hindi pala kumpisal --- KUMPIL.

kung magkukumpisal ako and i have all day -- aamin ako.

also, ill tell him my favorite sin --- pride.

akala ko naman kumpisal eh huli ko atang kumpisal nung elementary pa ako, hindi na naulit.

same here, kung mangumpisal ako aamin din ako... diko alam ano magiging reaksyon ng pari

 

[enigma02]

Sorry for the late reply. Busy with work.

Now, every preacher that deals with non-believers need to prepare for one thing that most of us tackle first: the validity of the one resource christians use, the bible.

If you can't defend the bible, then there is no sense in proceeding with the doctrines, let alone try to use bible verses to answer questions.

I dunno how OICs think, or how they were taught on how to handle non-believers. Preachers are the ones who are supposed to allign their approach with questioners, not the other way around. Most inquisitive non-believers will not proceed until the first prerequisite set of questions are not answered. Of all preachers I spoke with, none of them could provide logical arguments to defend the bible, and no, you cannot say bible is beyond logic, we find that invalid for a LOT of reasons. This OIC is no different in that sense.

But unlike the other preachers, who simply said it is up to me to believe or not and stopped there, this guy proceeded with the biblical approach in defending. He kept on citing verses. It's like he is insisting on using an evidence that was already invalidated by the court. I keep on pointing out that he has not even defended the book yet. Then came even more verses. This went on until I told him that we are not getting anywhere. That's where the hulk has been unleashed.

And yes, the open-minded thingie appeared here. It's been a while so I can't remember the exact quote, but it was like he said "ang hirap sa inyong mga walang diyos, di kayo open minded". I am as open-minded as I can be, but that does not mean I will accept everything that he gives me without going through proper stages. Then the rants went on until the other guy passed by.

One might ask, maybe I acted like a douche during the discussion. No, most of us that actually go to preachers discuss things quite nicely. We ask question, we get answers. Whether we find the answer acceptable or not, we will tell them that and the reason why, we ask more questions, but no side comments towards the preacher, or the answer (at least not in front of the preacher). I do things that way too. I even thank them for their time in the end. The ADD guy was the only preacher among all I've spoken to who acted like that.

I think almost all of them naman eh.. yung tipong ayaw patalo or ayaw padaig sa argumento..yung tipong parang sila lang ang tama..I have a classmate before who happen to be a member of ADD.. alam mo yung tipong wala naman katwiran eh ayaw ranggapin ang mali nya,,ni hindi nga marunong tumanggap ng pagkakamali..lagi may katwiran kahit mali na... wala ka makitang kababaang loob

 

[det2x]

Sorry for the late reply. Busy with work.

Now, every preacher that deals with non-believers need to prepare for one thing that most of us tackle first: the validity of the one resource christians use, the bible.

If you can't defend the bible, then there is no sense in proceeding with the doctrines, let alone try to use bible verses to answer questions.

I dunno how OICs think, or how they were taught on how to handle non-believers. Preachers are the ones who are supposed to allign their approach with questioners, not the other way around. Most inquisitive non-believers will not proceed until the first prerequisite set of questions are not answered. Of all preachers I spoke with, none of them could provide logical arguments to defend the bible, and no, you cannot say bible is beyond logic, we find that invalid for a LOT of reasons. This OIC is no different in that sense.

But unlike the other preachers, who simply said it is up to me to believe or not and stopped there, this guy proceeded with the biblical approach in defending. He kept on citing verses. It's like he is insisting on using an evidence that was already invalidated by the court. I keep on pointing out that he has not even defended the book yet. Then came even more verses. This went on until I told him that we are not getting anywhere. That's where the hulk has been unleashed.

And yes, the open-minded thingie appeared here. It's been a while so I can't remember the exact quote, but it was like he said "ang hirap sa inyong mga walang diyos, di kayo open minded". I am as open-minded as I can be, but that does not mean I will accept everything that he gives me without going through proper stages. Then the rants went on until the other guy passed by.

One might ask, maybe I acted like a douche during the discussion. No, most of us that actually go to preachers discuss things quite nicely. We ask question, we get answers. Whether we find the answer acceptable or not, we will tell them that and the reason why, we ask more questions, but no side comments towards the preacher, or the answer (at least not in front of the preacher). I do things that way too. I even thank them for their time in the end. The ADD guy was the only preacher among all I've spoken to who acted like that.

See then you are not really asking question when you talked that OIC? Because you have your preconceived Idea or answer to your question, eh di tumatanong ka nga?? Then that is why you gave him reason to be ballistic?

I don't know if there is an event when you talked to him?? So you see the Bible Expositions that we are doing is for the benefit of those you really asks for question, meaning they really don't know the answer to the question they are asking, I think you are not asking questions when you talked to that OIC maybe you are trying to debate with him that why maybe that OIC went ballistic as you said...

For example this video:

Please bear with it because the video is more than an hour in length...

Tell me what is your thoughts about it considering that the one supposedly asking is an atheist. Do you really think he went there to ask question or to question the answer of Brother Eli?

 

[rueryuzaki]

bright and early morning to you, lads.

trolololololol.

 

[renmazuo274]

I am asking questions. What, you think I'd waste my time trolling preachers? I have better things to do. I am seeking answers. And during that time, I was looking for a church that I'd go to.

Bible expo, that seems to be a good event to go to, if I only have a question or two. No, I have a prethora of questions about fundamental christian beliefs, which vary from sect to sect. That's why I start from the ground up. That could take hours. So I went on a private session with one of your OICs. And as far as I know, OICs should be prepared to answer questions at ANY time, regardless if it is a bible expo or not. It's their job, after all.

Though how we start may seem similar, but here's what you need to understand: Atheists and agnostics have different approaches.

Atheists have a preconceived answer and dun sila magbabase no matter what. Established fact na sa kanila ang mga sagot nila.

Agnostics seldom have answers. We seek answers, after all. We do have different appraches as well. How do I do it?

I ask questions. They answer. I find a flaw in the answer, I ask a question about that flaw. That will continue until everything adds up, then we move to the next point.

Remember, just as how salesmen pitch their product, effective preachers will first allign themselves with the questioner's pace, then try to pull the questioner's pace to allign with theirs (I believe your leader somewhat does this, but can't fully demonstrate it due to time constraints). In a way, preachers act as salesmen to their doctrine. This guy failed on so many levels.

Maybe it was the first time he encountered a non-believer, or he was not trained enough, I don't know. I always ask prerequisite questions until everything is answered, then we move on to the next step. This guy immediately assumes I would accept the resource that he keeps on using, yet he wasn't even able to defend that resource's validity. Would you use a resource that has flaws on a fundamental level? Of course not. So I refused to bulge from my position when he started dishing out the verses. I kept on pointing out na di pa kami tapos sa previous set of questions. More bible verses followed to answer these questions. E invalid nga yung resource na gamit nya. This went on until I've had enough. I told him straight that we are not getting anywhere with the discussion and maybe we should stop there.

Most preachers I spoke to simply say it's up to me to believe or not when they ran out of answers, I thank them for their time, and that's it. This guy was persistent. Bible verse this, bible verse that. When I told him enough is enough, he asked why. I am willing to accept biblical verses, if he can validate its source. Eh hindi pa nya nagagawa yun.

Beast mode na siya at that point, mataas na ang boses. Dun na pumasok yung "ang hirap kasi sa amin, di kami open minded" thing. In fact, anyone, including you, would agree na ang magtaas ng boses sa nagtatanong, under any circumstances, is very unprofessional. I kept looking at him with one eyebrow raised in disbelief (a mannerism of mine) as he kept going with his rant until the other guy came. Clearly the guy I spoke to needed more training.

 

[det2x]

You are asking question but won't accept answer? you are saying you found flaw in the answer then you have your own perfect answer to your question, What is the sense of asking question after all???

Well our preacher never sell any doctrine so I don't think it is appropriate to compare him to a salesman or salesmen? Maybe other preacher does, Brother Eli is preaching the doctrine for free, most often times visitors in our Bible Expositions would be able to have a free meal after the Exposition but we are not selling the doctrine, we give Bible for free Now it's up for the listener to decide if they are willing to accept the doctrine, and they are even ask before the Baptism If they really accept with all faithfulness the doctrine if they are in doubt they will never be Baptize,

It is really up to you to believe or not, But just like in the Video we have also the right to believe that what we believe is correct, Just like what Brother Eli answered to that atheist who tries to humiliate him, Sino nga naman ang may problema? Bakit ka nga naman magtatanong sa hindi nagaral about sa tinatanong mo???

Now going back to that OIC I don't know who is that person you are talking about, but I guess you just don't get the gist of his answer, or maybe you just don't want to accept the source of his answer... Just like all of the other atheists and agnostics I have talked to in this Forum, they are questioning the credibility of the Bible...

Sagot ko naman - Why do they have any other credible source other than the Bible???

If you understand the nature of human you would somehow understand the reason why that OIC raised his voice to you...

That is the problem, having a preconceived Idea or answer then you will ask others about it, If you will not agree to the answer then it will definitely turn out to be a debate, If both of you insist you are both correct right??

Maybe even if you are well trained a person is if he is quite high tempered you cannot blame him for that, But I'll bet he did not hurt you physically?? So just forgive him if you feel you are oppressed by him. Not unless nagtanim ka ng sama ng loob sa tao?

 

[renmazuo274]

You are asking question but won't accept answer? you are saying you found flaw in the answer then you have your own perfect answer to your question, What is the sense of asking question after all???

Well our preacher never sell any doctrine so I don't think it is appropriate to compare him to a salesman or salesmen? Maybe other preacher does, Brother Eli is preaching the doctrine for free, most often times visitors in our Bible Expositions would be able to have a free meal after the Exposition but we are not selling the doctrine, we give Bible for free Now it's up for the listener to decide if they are willing to accept the doctrine, and they are even ask before the Baptism If they really accept with all faithfulness the doctrine if they are in doubt they will never be Baptize,

It is really up to you to believe or not, But just like in the Video we have also the right to believe that what we believe is correct, Just like what Brother Eli answered to that atheist who tries to humiliate him, Sino nga naman ang may problema? Bakit ka nga naman magtatanong sa hindi nagaral about sa tinatanong mo???

Now going back to that OIC I don't know who is that person you are talking about, but I guess you just don't get the gist of his answer, or maybe you just don't want to accept the source of his answer... Just like all of the other atheists and agnostics I have talked to in this Forum, they are questioning the credibility of the Bible...

Sagot ko naman - Why do they have any other credible source other than the Bible???

If you understand the nature of human you would somehow understand the reason why that OIC raised his voice to you...

That is the problem, having a preconceived Idea or answer then you will ask others about it, If you will not agree to the answer then it will definitely turn out to be a debate, If both of you insist you are both correct right??

Maybe even if you are well trained a person is if he is quite high tempered you cannot blame him for that, But I'll bet he did not hurt you physically?? So just forgive him if you feel you are oppressed by him. Not unless nagtanim ka ng sama ng loob sa tao?

You keep on missing the fact that I do not have answers, only questions. I am seeking answers. I do not consider myself correct since there was no answer to correct. That's why I ask questions.

If you think that one question=one answer is satisfactory, then that's how most theists are. Most of you guys are reliant on your spoonfed beliefs after all, no questions asked. Been there, done that. I used to be a theist, after all. But that's not how Non-believers like me think.

Non-believers like me ask questions, get answers, review, find chinks/uncertainties, ask questions in relation to the chinks in the answer, and the cycle repeats until we piece everything together that qualifies as a final answer. If you read the previous post, walang nakalagay dun na di ko tinanggap yung sagot ng OIC nyo. May nakita akong flaw sa sagot nya, tungkol sa butas na yun ang tinanong ko. Unlike atheists, who will say he is wrong then present their argument, I, an agnostic, simply asked more questions. Pareho na ba sa pagkontra yun para sa yo? Does that equate to not accepting an answer? If yes, then move along. You are in the wrong thread.

Though the OIC acted unprofessionally (disgustingly unbecoming of his chosen vocation at that), I understand that he is also human and he just acted like one, which is, in my point of view, normal. He simply displayed one human quality (which theists consider sin): Pride. And no, I don't harbor ill feelings towards the guy. The questions were simply inquiries, nothing personal. I was calm and collected the entire ordeal. Not sure about the OIC though.

Also, I never said your sect charges for your doctrines either. You kinda missed me there by a mile. It seems like play of words or metaphors don't work on you. Let me explain why the comparison was made.

Salesmen pitch their product to strangers to sell items.
Preachers preach to outsiders to get members for their church.

Salesmen see people as prospective buyers.
Preachers see outsiders as potential recruits.

The better the salesman pitches, the more sales he gets.
The better the preacher preaches, the more members he gets for their church.

Salesmen do not charge when pitching. The buyers simply throw money ay the company when they sell something.
Preachers do not charge when preaching. The recruits simply throw money at the church for salvation.

They are the same as far as approach goes, they only differ in fundamental goals. They both use words to entice people. In the end, they both run businesses. So yes, salesmen are comparable to preachers.

Also, please remember that your leader is no stranger to preaching doctrines and sales pitching at the same time.

 

[bloodsucker]

wow.. I agree.. I'm also a Atheist.. you got a point bro..

 

[ronell10]

hello lads...

keep that discussion healthy as possible

 

[det2x]

You keep on missing the fact that I do not have answers, only questions. I am seeking answers. I do not consider myself correct since there was no answer to correct. That's why I ask questions.

If you think that one question=one answer is satisfactory, then that's how most theists are. Most of you guys are reliant on your spoonfed beliefs after all, no questions asked. Been there, done that. I used to be a theist, after all. But that's not how Non-believers like me think.

Non-believers like me ask questions, get answers, review, find chinks/uncertainties, ask questions in relation to the chinks in the answer, and the cycle repeats until we piece everything together that qualifies as a final answer. If you read the previous post, walang nakalagay dun na di ko tinanggap yung sagot ng OIC nyo. May nakita akong flaw sa sagot nya, tungkol sa butas na yun ang tinanong ko. Unlike atheists, who will say he is wrong then present their argument, I, an agnostic, simply asked more questions. Pareho na ba sa pagkontra yun para sa yo? Does that equate to not accepting an answer? If yes, then move along. You are in the wrong thread.

Though the OIC acted unprofessionally (disgustingly unbecoming of his chosen vocation at that), I understand that he is also human and he just acted like one, which is, in my point of view, normal. He simply displayed one human quality (which theists consider sin): Pride. And no, I don't harbor ill feelings towards the guy. The questions were simply inquiries, nothing personal. I was calm and collected the entire ordeal. Not sure about the OIC though.

Also, I never said your sect charges for your doctrines either. You kinda missed me there by a mile. It seems like play of words or metaphors don't work on you. Let me explain why the comparison was made.

Salesmen pitch their product to strangers to sell items.
Preachers preach to outsiders to get members for their church.

Salesmen see people as prospective buyers.
Preachers see outsiders as potential recruits.

The better the salesman pitches, the more sales he gets.
The better the preacher preaches, the more members he gets for their church.

Salesmen do not charge when pitching. The buyers simply throw money ay the company when they sell something.
Preachers do not charge when preaching. The recruits simply throw money at the church for salvation.

They are the same as far as approach goes, they only differ in fundamental goals. They both use words to entice people. In the end, they both run businesses. So yes, salesmen are comparable to preachers.?

Also, please remember that your leader is no stranger to preaching doctrines and sales pitching at the same time.

You don't have answer? Yes walang nakalagay dun na hindi mo tinanggap yung answer but you found flaw to the answer he gave to you??? Why did you conclude that his answer has flaw??? That's my point there that means you have other idea about it?? Right? Now bakit mo naman nasabing may flaw yung sagot niya? Ano ang specific flaw sa sagot niya may we know ba? Now how would you validate his resource?? It's means you know which is valid or correct??? At the first place where would you expect him to get his answer as a believing Christian? The Quran? I don't think so...

Again our preacher as you can see in the video took more than 45mins to answer the question or questions of that atheist, giving not only Bible verses but proof that what is written in the Bible is true. I don't know if you gave time watching it, but that not one question one answer siya kung sumagot.

Now ganito lang yan, if you ask a question to a person and he answer but despite of his answer your question now branched out another question it means kung hindi mo naintindihan yung sagot eh duda ka dun sa sagot diba? kaya nagsanga pa ang tanong mo. Saan ba dyan ang nangyari sa'yo nun?? Now if sasabihin mong dun ka sa hindi mo naintindihan, tanong naman bakit?? Anong mahirap intindihin sa sagot??? Dahil hindi valid?? How you know naman na valid or hindi yung sagot???

Well base in your comparison I don't think that fits to our preacher... Again as I've said maybe to other preachers it fits.

Bottomline there is profit...

A salesman pitches for profit just like other preachers do...

But our preacher preaches not for profit, maybe you are not just getting that picture, that is why your comment is in general.

Parang ibang girls lang yan porke naloko ng isang lalake magcocomment minsan na lahat ng lalake eh manloloko na. Sinumpa na ang lahat ng lalake, bitter na. But that should not be the perspective diba?