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Atheists and Agnostics Meeting Place

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damn, i got to admit this shed quite a light on me i need more time to research on this as a wise man would do and also as a person going to the church every sunday i'm not satisfied with my belief i supposed i really need to scan some articles and websites like you posted, i also hate the fact that some people walk through the road (our religion) without assessing if this road will lead them to the truth or locked them up forever.

stormer: are you a devoted christian before? i think i'm turning into you lol

Well said. The same sentiments exactly of those who stumbled upon the works of those scholars.

Me a devoted Christian? Yes, hyperactive one too, to boot. But another Christian here thinks I wasn't even Christian enough and wants to pin me into some emotional bait blah blah, like how other Christians point their fingers at fellow Christians for being lacking in their faith—you know the drill... :lol:

Well, let me say if you turn out like me in the end, you're in good company. There are lots of others in this thread who started out like us in their previous lives. :)

- - - Updated - - -

You know what, after reading the sun god framework, I actually felt I have gotten hold of a key that unlocked so many puzzles of history, specifically in matters of major religious cultures: of the the threads that unite them all. It was too bad that Christianity attempted to cut the cords of those connections and burned the Alexandrian library in order to achieve that, seeing that the information leakage from the ancient times was coming from that place. That one vicious act was mostly responsible for plunging Europe into the Dark Ages. It wasn't until the Moslems stumbled into classical Greek and Roman thought that Europe saw Enlightenment, until they sowed darkness again with their Crusades' campaigns and set back the Moslems in the action and planted the seed of ill-will towards the two Abrahamic religions.

And to think that other major religious cultures did not have this conceit about them, fully aware that their local gods are equivalent to other gods in other nations, keenly aware that they were drawing from some original sources way before them.
 
Well said. The same sentiments exactly of those who stumbled upon the works of those scholars.

Me a devoted Christian? Yes, hyperactive one too, to boot. But another Christian here thinks I wasn't even Christian enough and wants to pin me into some emotional bait blah blah, like how other Christians point their fingers at fellow Christians for being lacking in their faith—you know the drill... :lol:

Well, let me say if you turn out like me in the end, you're in good company. There are lots of others in this thread who started out like us in their previous lives. :)

Ah the"Christians" you are referring to i saw them pin you down it's like they want to choke you with food that they think "delicious" but for you it's not and you constantly spitting it out :) they are not ready to be unplugged in the matrix adage xD but i really don't know what to say to my girlfriend though, she's a devoted christian since her childhood days, she's the one that convinced me to join the church and eventually get submerged into the swimming pool as they call baptism.
 
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Ah the"Christians" you are referring to i saw them pin you down it's like they want to choke you with food that they think "delicious" but for you it's not and you constantly spitting it out :) they are not ready to be unplugged in the matrix adage xD but i really don't know what to say to my girlfriend though, she's a devoted christian since her childhood days, she's the one that convinced me to join the church and eventually get submerged into the swimming pool as they call baptism.

Yep, the matrix analogy is not too far off the mark. :)

Well now you're beginning to sound like two close fellow subscribers in this thread: ryu (married now—ryu?? :)) and ren . They have some posts here about how they handled the situation with their Christian GFs. I myself have no trouble with my deeply Catholic wife—I just charm my way out every time and I think she's beginning to see the difference between reason and unreason. :lol:
 
You know what, after reading the sun god framework, I actually felt I have gotten hold of a key that unlocked so many puzzles of history, specifically in matters of major religious cultures: of the the threads that unite them all. It was too bad that Christianity attempted to cut the cords of those connections and burned the Alexandrian library in order to achieve that, seeing that the information leakage from the ancient times was coming from that place. That one vicious act was mostly responsible for plunging Europe into the Dark Ages. It wasn't until the Moslems stumbled into classical Greek and Roman thought that Europe saw Enlightenment, until they sowed darkness again with their Crusades' campaigns and set back the Moslems in the action and planted the seed of ill-will towards the two Abrahamic religions.

And to think that other major religious cultures did not have this conceit about them, fully aware that their local gods are equivalent to other gods in other nations, keenly aware that they were drawing from some original sources way before them.

Yep, the matrix analogy is not too far off the mark. :)

Well now you're beginning to sound like two close fellow subscribers in this thread: ryu (married now—ryu?? :)) and ren . They have some posts here about how they handled the situation with their Christian GFs. I myself have no trouble with my deeply Catholic wife—I just charm my way out every time and I think she's beginning to see the difference between reason and unreason. :lol:

pardon me i just got back home from office :) i just saw your post update i might say i felt the same way it's like the air i'm inhaling is not contaminated anymore but a clean one i just want to research more about this as i go on with my journey of finding the truth ill also probably won't intervene with my girlfriend belief's right now ill let her discover the truth alone :) that my friend is free will lol

question: what do you think of apologist pascal's wager concept? seems like manipulation sort of thing, they try to imposed their beliefs on other people again.
 
pardon me i just got back home from office :) i just saw your post update i might say i felt the same way it's like the air i'm inhaling is not contaminated anymore but a clean one i just want to research more about this as i go on with my journey of finding the truth ill also probably won't intervene with my girlfriend belief's right now ill let her discover the truth alone :) that my friend is free will lol

question: what do you think of apologist pascal's wager concept? seems like manipulation sort of thing, they try to imposed their beliefs on other people again.

Letting your girlfriend go about her normal life routine—her own free will as you put it—and not interfering is as good as any approach you could adopt at this time. Perhaps when you are more comfortable with your position and as comfortable as discussing let's say initially just bits of it with her, like some light feeler to see how she would put herself in the situation, you will have a general idea how to open up more, if it even needs that. In my case I just went along with my wife through all the religious routines, but dropped little hints here and there until she has a moment of eureka and wraps her head around the whole idea of her husband being the atheist that he is. For example, I would voice out my distaste with some specific church or dogma issues and why they are helplessly irrational and wrong, until she gets the whole picture. Heck, I don't even pursue if she gets it at first: ideas are strange creatures—they linger in the mind until their meaning manages to unravel themselves. :)

On Pascal's Wager


Very briefly Pascal's Wager states:

If there is a God, He is infinitely incomprehensible, since, having, neither parts nor limits, He has no affinity to us. We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is ... you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then without hesitation that he is.​

For this post, I would briefly dissect Pascal's Wager on a Few Fronts.

Pascal's wager sounds deceptively simple. Many a religious person finds such a call attractive: one only needs to believe without considering the evidence and one would immediately be in a better position than that of the non-believer. After all, they say, if I believe and then it turns out to be true I get to enjoy heavenly bliss; but if my belief turns out to be false, and there is no God, then when I die, I lose nothing. An atheist, the religious person may continue, if he turns out to be wrong will suffer an eternity of torment. If the atheist turns out to be right then it is only equal to the believer's "worst case." Obviously then, the believer will say, you must wager on the side of belief.

But Pascal's argument is seriously flawed. The religious environment that Pascal lived in was simple. Belief and disbelief only boiled down to two choices: Roman Catholicism and atheism. With a finite choice, his argument would be sound. But on Pascal's own premise that God is infinitely incomprehensible, then in theory, there would be an infinite number of possible theologies about God, all of which are equally probable.

First, let us look at the more obvious possibilities we know of today—possibilities that were either unknown to, or ignored by, Pascal. In the Calvinistic theological doctrine of predestination, it makes no difference what one chooses to believe since, in the final analysis, who actually gets rewarded is an arbitrary choice of God. Furthermore we know of many more gods of many different religions, all of which have different schemes of rewards and punishments. Given that there are more than 2,500 gods known to man, and given Pascal's own assumptions that one cannot comprehend God (or gods), then it follows that, even the best-case scenario (i.e. that God exists and that one of the known Gods and theologies happen to be the correct one), the chances of making a successful choice is less than one in 2,500.

Second, Pascal's negative theology does not exclude the possibility that the true God and true theology is not one that is currently known to the world. For instance, it is possible to think of a God who rewards, say, only those who purposely step on sidewalk cracks. This sounds absurd, but given the premise that we cannot understand God, this possible theology cannot be dismissed. In such a case, the choice of what God to believe would be irrelevant as one would be rewarded on a premise totally distinct from what one actually believes. Furthermore as many atheist philosophers have pointed out, it is also possible to conceive of a deity who rewards intellectual honesty, a God who rewards atheists with eternal bliss simply because they dared to follow where the evidence leads—that given the available evidence, no God exists! :) Finally we should also note that given Pascal's premise, it is possible to conceive of a God who is evil and who punishes the good and rewards the evil.

Thus Pascal's call for us not to consider the evidence but to simply believe on prudential grounds fails. As the atheist philosopher, J.L. Mackie wrote:

Once the full range of such possibilities is taken into account, Pascal's argument from comparative expectations falls to the ground. The cultivation of non-rational belief is not even practically reasonable.​

In the intellectual side of things: on the basis of what we now know about the origins of many religions, especially Christianity in our immediate case, far from being inconclusive, shows that the major teachings and claims of Christianity are false. These parts show that one of the main assumptions of Pascal's wager, that we cannot know the truth of falsity or religious claims and are thus forced to make a wager, is false.

On the moral side of things: some believers have tried to argue that Christians lead healthier lives than non-Christians, but the studies cited have been shown to be seriously flawed. Furthermore it is debatable whether Christianity actually makes a person moral. History seems to tell us otherwise. Many of the popes throughout history had been morally deficient human beings; so too were many of the church fathers, Protestant reformers and some modern evangelical preachers. For they preached intolerance and hate and sometimes actively encouraged the torture and murders of innocent people. Indeed recent sociological studies have shown that there is a negative correlation between religiosity and morality.

The world today, perhaps more than ever, is in need of our undivided, moral and rational, attention. The problems of the world, both natural and man-made are many: famine, floods, the greenhouse effect, the ozone hole and the irreversible extinction of countless species of plants and animals. The only chance the world has is for humankind to understand that this world is all we have, there is no other, no afterlife. Only we can solve the world's problems. The solutions for the problems of the world and for life in general are not to be found in Christianity. Christianity, in fact, is part of the problem.

On both intellectual and moral grounds the only course for a person to take is the rejection of Pascal's wager.

For another approach, we could invert the Pascal argument, as some had done, in order to expose its inadequacy better:

You have only one life to live.

Do you want to get to the end, having wasted it in the vain worship of nothingness? Better to live free and to love the life you have, rather than prostrating yourself in hopes for a better one later.

Pascal makes his assumptions based on possible rewards, those of eternal salvation and evading the depths of hell. But that’s betting with credit. Instead of risking the afterlife, we are actually risking our life, which we already know we possess, by using it in capitulation to false and harmful creeds, myths, and moralities. He seems to think that all that matters in his Wager is the stakes of your winning, and writes off what you’ve lost as ineffectual.

I do not consider the waste of my life, the devotion of it to a lie, as nothing.

The stakes in question Pascal would cite as finite and therefore unworthy to be bet against the potential infinite rewards of the afterlife. But since what we know is that we have life, and afterlife is merely a minuscule potential, you’re betting dollars to Monopoly money. Besides which, if one life is truly and ultimately all we have, then it is literally all we have to bet with, making it materially, measurably, finite, but worth everything imaginable–worth infinite amounts.

I’d rather spend my last ten dollars on dinner than a lottery ticket. Especially in a universe where there is no convincing evidence to say anyone wins the lottery.

Lastly, science has made so much strides now that Pascal would have been surprised to know what modern humans have already achieved in understanding major facets of reality. In fact I feel that I have already digressed by the using the above arguments: as, essentially, the death-knell of religions comes from three fronts:

  1. The most recent findings confirming that quantum fluctuations are the foundation of Inflation and Big Bang Theory: that all the matter and energy in the universe from the smallest to the largest structures (planetary systems, galaxies, supergalaxies, the cosmic filaments all evidenced in the cosmic microwave radiation background) are generated by spacetime itself, essentially eliminating the need for a supernatural agent in the existence of the universe.
  2. The advances in evolution theory and biological sciences: the fossil evidence discounting any creation myth (billions of years of life origin versus 6,000 years or so in the Christian version, for example), the observed emergence of life from primordial soups and now hydrothermal "chemical gardens," the gained capability of humans to produce new life forms itself through CRISP-R (that gene editing tool), the real-time observation of evolution in action, among many others.
  3. The insight that many religions share the same astronomy-born mythologies and that there is hardly any religion in the world that is not based on some allegorical codification of easily understood natural phenomena.

These three last arguments alone seal the deal for me to consider any further validity for Pascal's Wager.
 

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Letting your girlfriend go about her normal life routine—her own free will as you put it—and not interfering is as good as any approach you could adopt at this time. Perhaps when you are more comfortable with your position and as comfortable as discussing let's say initially just bits of it with her, like some light feeler to see how she would put herself in the situation, you will have a general idea how to open up more, if it even needs that. In my case I just went along with my wife through all the religious routines, but dropped little hints here and there until she has a moment of eureka and wraps her head around the whole idea of her husband being the atheist that he is. For example, I would voice out my distaste with some specific church or dogma issues and why they are helplessly irrational and wrong, until she gets the whole picture. Heck, I don't even pursue if she gets it at first: ideas are strange creatures—they linger in the mind until their meaning manages to unravel themselves. :)

On Pascal's Wager


Very briefly Pascal's Wager states:

If there is a God, He is infinitely incomprehensible, since, having, neither parts nor limits, He has no affinity to us. We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is ... you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then without hesitation that he is.​

For this post, I would briefly dissect Pascal's Wager on a Few Fronts.

Pascal's wager sounds deceptively simple. Many a religious person finds such a call attractive: one only needs to believe without considering the evidence and one would immediately be in a better position than that of the non-believer. After all, they say, if I believe and then it turns out to be true I get to enjoy heavenly bliss; but if my belief turns out to be false, and there is no God, then when I die, I lose nothing. An atheist, the religious person may continue, if he turns out to be wrong will suffer an eternity of torment. If the atheist turns out to be right then it is only equal to the believer's "worst case." Obviously then, the believer will say, you must wager on the side of belief.

But Pascal's argument is seriously flawed. The religious environment that Pascal lived in was simple. Belief and disbelief only boiled down to two choices: Roman Catholicism and atheism. With a finite choice, his argument would be sound. But on Pascal's own premise that God is infinitely incomprehensible, then in theory, there would be an infinite number of possible theologies about God, all of which are equally probable.

First, let us look at the more obvious possibilities we know of today—possibilities that were either unknown to, or ignored by, Pascal. In the Calvinistic theological doctrine of predestination, it makes no difference what one chooses to believe since, in the final analysis, who actually gets rewarded is an arbitrary choice of God. Furthermore we know of many more gods of many different religions, all of which have different schemes of rewards and punishments. Given that there are more than 2,500 gods known to man, and given Pascal's own assumptions that one cannot comprehend God (or gods), then it follows that, even the best-case scenario (i.e. that God exists and that one of the known Gods and theologies happen to be the correct one), the chances of making a successful choice is less than one in 2,500.

Second, Pascal's negative theology does not exclude the possibility that the true God and true theology is not one that is currently known to the world. For instance, it is possible to think of a God who rewards, say, only those who purposely step on sidewalk cracks. This sounds absurd, but given the premise that we cannot understand God, this possible theology cannot be dismissed. In such a case, the choice of what God to believe would be irrelevant as one would be rewarded on a premise totally distinct from what one actually believes. Furthermore as many atheist philosophers have pointed out, it is also possible to conceive of a deity who rewards intellectual honesty, a God who rewards atheists with eternal bliss simply because they dared to follow where the evidence leads—that given the available evidence, no God exists! :) Finally we should also note that given Pascal's premise, it is possible to conceive of a God who is evil and who punishes the good and rewards the evil.

Thus Pascal's call for us not to consider the evidence but to simply believe on prudential grounds fails. As the atheist philosopher, J.L. Mackie wrote:

Once the full range of such possibilities is taken into account, Pascal's argument from comparative expectations falls to the ground. The cultivation of non-rational belief is not even practically reasonable.​

In the intellectual side of things: on the basis of what we now know about the origins of many religions, especially Christianity in our immediate case, far from being inconclusive, shows that the major teachings and claims of Christianity are false. These parts show that one of the main assumptions of Pascal's wager, that we cannot know the truth of falsity or religious claims and are thus forced to make a wager, is false.

On the moral side of things: some believers have tried to argue that Christians lead healthier lives than non-Christians, but the studies cited have been shown to be seriously flawed. Furthermore it is debatable whether Christianity actually makes a person moral. History seems to tell us otherwise. Many of the popes throughout history had been morally deficient human beings; so too were many of the church fathers, Protestant reformers and some modern evangelical preachers. For they preached intolerance and hate and sometimes actively encouraged the torture and murders of innocent people. Indeed recent sociological studies have shown that there is a negative correlation between religiosity and morality.

The world today, perhaps more than ever, is in need of our undivided, moral and rational, attention. The problems of the world, both natural and man-made are many: famine, floods, the greenhouse effect, the ozone hole and the irreversible extinction of countless species of plants and animals. The only chance the world has is for humankind to understand that this world is all we have, there is no other, no afterlife. Only we can solve the world's problems. The solutions for the problems of the world and for life in general are not to be found in Christianity. Christianity, in fact, is part of the problem.

On both intellectual and moral grounds the only course for a person to take is the rejection of Pascal's wager.

For another approach, we could invert the Pascal argument, as some had done, in order to expose its inadequacy better:

You have only one life to live.

Do you want to get to the end, having wasted it in the vain worship of nothingness? Better to live free and to love the life you have, rather than prostrating yourself in hopes for a better one later.

Pascal makes his assumptions based on possible rewards, those of eternal salvation and evading the depths of hell. But that’s betting with credit. Instead of risking the afterlife, we are actually risking our life, which we already know we possess, by using it in capitulation to false and harmful creeds, myths, and moralities. He seems to think that all that matters in his Wager is the stakes of your winning, and writes off what you’ve lost as ineffectual.

I do not consider the waste of my life, the devotion of it to a lie, as nothing.

The stakes in question Pascal would cite as finite and therefore unworthy to be bet against the potential infinite rewards of the afterlife. But since what we know is that we have life, and afterlife is merely a minuscule potential, you’re betting dollars to Monopoly money. Besides which, if one life is truly and ultimately all we have, then it is literally all we have to bet with, making it materially, measurably, finite, but worth everything imaginable–worth infinite amounts.

I’d rather spend my last ten dollars on dinner than a lottery ticket. Especially in a universe where there is no convincing evidence to say anyone wins the lottery.

Lastly, science has made so much strides now that Pascal would have been surprised to know what modern humans have already achieved in understanding major facets of reality. In fact I feel that I have already digressed by the using the above arguments: as, essentially, the death-knell of religions comes from three fronts:

  1. The most recent findings confirming that quantum fluctuations are the foundation of Inflation and Big Bang Theory: that all the matter and energy in the universe from the smallest to the largest structures (planetary systems, galaxies, supergalaxies, the cosmic filaments all evidenced in the cosmic microwave radiation background) are generated by spacetime itself, essentially eliminating the need for a supernatural agent in the existence of the universe.
  2. The advances in evolution theory and biological sciences: the fossil evidence discounting any creation myth (billions of years of life origin versus 6,000 years or so in the Christian version, for example), the observed emergence of life from primordial soups and now hydrothermal "chemical gardens," the gained capability of humans to produce new life forms itself through CRISP-R (that gene editing tool), the real-time observation of evolution in action, among many others.
  3. The insight that many religions share the same astronomy-born mythologies and that there is hardly any religion in the world that is not based on some allegorical codification of easily understood natural phenomena.

These three last arguments alone seal the deal for me to consider any further validity for Pascal's Wager.

clap clap completely agree on this if God nature is incomprehensible thus the wager will be non sense right? there can be infinite of possibilities that can happen one cannot say the former is better than the latter if one doesn't even completely understand the other side.

have you heard about richard dawkins? what do you think about him?
 
clap clap completely agree on this if God nature is incomprehensible thus the wager will be non sense right? there can be infinite of possibilities that can happen one cannot say the former is better than the latter if one doesn't even completely understand the other side.

have you heard about richard dawkins? what do you think about him?

I have a good laugh really for some extended of time thinking out the prospect that atheists have just as good if not better of a chance of making it to that "heaven" whatever it is as a result of the Pascal hypothesis: by positing a god who values reason above all, placing even superstition and superficial religions as hurdles for men of sense to work around towards their "salvation" or "redemption" or "reward" or call it whatever else. Of course the prospect of a totally evil god reminds one of the gloom of Asgard that only the likes of Thor and Odin could appreciate. :)

Richard Dawkins is (along with Leonard Krauss) one of the most outspoken critics of religions and all belief in superstition, especially paying special attention to the rise of fundamentalism in the form of creationism and intelligent design among the believers. Both agree that to safeguard and ensure our children do not return to the Dark Ages and push forward the cause of intelligent civilization, atheists must block those forces that seek to undermine humanity through the backdoor, as is the prevailing modus operandi of ultramilitaristic institutions in the world: plant the seeds of control in the minds of children through schools—hoping that parents would not catch on to the hideous programs designed specifically to capture the unsuspecting minds of their very own children—to make them susceptible to religious dogma and control later on.

Krauss, despite the flak he receives from injured parties, is of the belief that scientists should reconsider the uwritten rule of decorum and peaceful cohabitation with religious beliefs given that hyperactive and more militant religious factions pose a potent force seeking to undermine the very reasons that rational science could exist in any society. To this end, both Krauss and Dawkins and their avid supporters battle many religious groups on many political, economic, educational, and various social fronts.

On these grounds, I support all their programs without second thought, though I am not the type to go out the streets blaring horns for the purpose—no! :lol: I do my part my own way. They appear to eschew other approaches taken by other atheists, but it's understandable considering that they probably think they don't have the luxury of time to indulge with those other approaches given what they see as the more immediate need to meet the creationist and intelligent design persuasions head on. Well, I have absolutely no problem with that. :)
 
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I have a good laugh really for some extended of time thinking out the prospect that atheists have just as good if not better of a chance of making it to that "heaven" whatever it is as a result of the Pascal hypothesis: by positing a god who values reason above all, placing even superstition and superficial religions as hurdles for men of sense to work around towards their "salvation" or "redemption" or "reward" or call it whatever else. Of course, the prospect of a totally evil god reminds one of the gloom of Asgard that only the likes of Thor and Odin could appreciate. :)

Richard Dawkins is (along with Leonard Krauss) one of the most outspoken critics of religions and all belief in superstition, especially paying special attention to the rise of fundamentalism in the form of creationism and intelligent design among the believers. Both agree that to safeguard and ensure our children do not return to the Dark Ages and push forward the cause of intelligent civilization, atheists must block those forces that seek to undermine humanity through the backdoor, as is the prevailing modus operandi of ultramilitaristic institutions in the world: plant the seeds of control in the minds of children through schools—hoping that parents would not catch on to the hideous programs designed specifically to capture the unsuspecting minds of their very own children—to make them susceptible to religious dogma and control later on.

Krauss, despite the flak he receives from injured parties, is of the belief that scientists should reconsider the uwritten rule of decorum and peaceful cohabitation with religious beliefs given that hyperactive and more militant religious factions pose a potent force seeking to undermine the very reasons that rational science could exist in any society. To this end, both Krauss and Dawkins and their avid supporters battle many religious groups on many political, economic, educational, and various social fronts.

On these grounds, I support all their programs without second thought, though I am not the type to go out the streets blaring horns for the purpose—no! :lol: I do my part my own way. They appear to eschew other approaches taken by other atheists, but it's understandable considering that they probably think they don't have the luxury of time to indulge with those other approaches given what they see as the more immediate need to meet the creationist and intelligent design persuasions head on. Well, I have absolutely no problem with that. :)

haha, our current beliefs, superstitions preventing us from advancing further and further religion is used to fill the void of our ignorance in astronomy, physics and other branches of science (it's not supposed to be like that today right? were not ignorants anymore, i mean look at the technology at NASA) or like what you said to preserve knowledge they made a story out of it so simple minded people may comprehend the complexity of our existence, we still carried out that belief from our ancestors thousand years ago we're dumbed down till now because some humans corrupted the old teachings to benefit their own agendas humanity destroying humanity is the real evil here not diverging from the belief of the social norms. I have a dream, a dream of civilization kind of like star wars or star trek, space faring, an interstellar civilization capable of traversing star in a snap of a finger (warp drive yeah!) finding another civilization in another galaxy, exoplanets oh probably in another universe what saddens me is we will be dead by then.

I admire professor Richard Dawkins his views on everything has a basis and facts, i also like Michio Kaku he always give me goose bumps when he talk about space travel :)

Is it alright to finish the bible from old and new testament? i find it compelling to read all these manuscripts to see the fallacies, contradictions and equate it with the sun god allegory :) myself then moving forward will read some of the works of remarkable atheist. Is video documentary alright? like the videos on youtube? i don't know if it's a credible source.. and by the way I was really suprised that some christian tried to defend the bible without reading all of it also some of the people in my church attend sunday mass without their bible in their belongings and yet they can somehow agree with our pastor sermon. is the logic turned off here? can't they make a discovery for themselves?
 
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haha, our current beliefs, superstitions preventing us from advancing further and further religion is used to fill the void of our ignorance in astronomy, physics and other branches of science (it's not supposed to be like that today right? were not ignorants anymore, i mean look at the technology at NASA) or like what you said to preserve knowledge they made a story out of it so simple minded people may comprehend the complexity of our existence, we still carried out that belief from our ancestors thousand years ago we're dumbed down till now because some humans corrupted the old teachings to benefit their own agendas humanity destroying humanity is the real evil here not diverging from the belief of the social norms. I have a dream, a dream of civilization kind of like star wars or star trek, space faring, an interstellar civilization capable of traversing star in a snap of a finger (warp drive yeah!) finding another civilization in another galaxy, exoplanets oh probably in another universe what saddens me is we will be dead by then.

I admire professor Richard Dawkins his views on everything has a basis and facts, i also like Michio Kaku he always give me goose bumps when he talk about space travel :)

Is it alright to finish the bible from old and new testament? i find it compelling to read all these manuscripts to see the fallacies, contradictions and equate it with the sun god allegory :) myself then moving forward will read some of the works of remarkable atheist. Is video documentary alright? like the videos on youtube? i don't know if it's a credible source.. and by the way I was really suprised that some christian tried to defend the bible without reading all of it also some of the people in my church attend sunday mass without their bible in their belongings and yet they can somehow agree with our pastor sermon. is the logic turned off here? can't they make a discovery for themselves?

Humanity approaching or reaching Star Trek levels: the ultimate dream, yes. Warp drive tech alone offers tantalizing prospects of adventures beyond our wildest imaginations, unless you unfortunately suffer from malfunctioning warp drive tech and find yourself dumped into the mouth of a rumbling volcano in the dinosaur age or something like this. :lol:

It's a tall order to read the bible cover to cover, but since I managed that not just once, mind you, and you're up to it, why not....

As for YouTube videos, I have nothing personally against them (I have many of them actually). I just personally prefer to read so I can easily make notes of those sections that strike me as very important as quickly as I can.

As for Christians contentedly walking the Christian path without having read their bibles themselves—what, you want them becoming atheists overnight? :lol: It's said, humorously, that the best way to make an atheist of any Christian is to force him or her to read the bible cover to cover, absolutely no cherry-picking. :lol:
 
Humanity approaching or reaching Star Trek levels: the ultimate dream, yes. Warp drive tech alone offers tantalizing prospects of adventures beyond our wildest imaginations, unless you unfortunately suffer from malfunctioning warp drive tech and find yourself dumped into the mouth of a rumbling volcano in the dinosaur age or something like this. :lol:

It's a tall order to read the bible cover to cover, but since I managed that not just once, mind you, and you're up to it, why not....

As for YouTube videos, I have nothing personally against them (I have many of them actually). I just personally prefer to read so I can easily make notes of those sections that strike me as very important as quickly as I can.

As for Christians contentedly walking the Christian path without having read their bibles themselves—what, you want them becoming atheists overnight? :lol: It's said, humorously, that the best way to make an atheist of any Christian is to force him or her to read the bible cover to cover, absolutely no cherry-picking. :lol:

haha they say when you get used to something like drugs or smoking the notion of stopping what you're doing scares you despite of the numerous health problems might caused you, mental illness and halucinations and what not turning off the logic and facts to feed your addiction that's the same with religion right? the more i research about this the more i become knowledgeable lol though i'm afraid that some here in my office will think i'm a freak haha
 
All this talk about possible alien life suddenly gave me a compelling (well, at least to me :lol:) idea: what if all earth life is a result of seeding from universe-level space probes carrying all the ingredients of life and programmed to cover all pockets of the universe, the source being an ancient civilization from the very dawn of history of the universe either on the brink of extinction from some local cataclysmic event or still in existence today. I realize the idea approaches a combination of Krypton or Saiyan planets' extinction narrative, the film Prometheus, and some work that I am not in a position to disclose. Anyone...?
 
Nova Season 44 School of the Future, ganda nang episode. So tama pala yung mga hippies noon about home schooling.
 
Nova Season 44 School of the Future, ganda nang episode. So tama pala yung mga hippies noon about home schooling.

Anu issue sa home schooling?

All this talk about possible alien life suddenly gave me a compelling (well, at least to me :lol:) idea: what if all earth life is a result of seeding from universe-level space probes carrying all the ingredients of life and programmed to cover all pockets of the universe, the source being an ancient civilization from the very dawn of history of the universe either on the brink of extinction from some local cataclysmic event or still in existence today. I realize the idea approaches a combination of Krypton or Saiyan planets' extinction narrative, the film Prometheus, and some work that I am not in a position to disclose. Anyone...?

Ang masasabi ko lang ay malaki ang universe at marami pang di pa nadidiscover lalo na yung other solar system, inside ng bawat galaxies at other life forms. Di lang tayo as human na exist sa universe na ito.

Pwede rin mag-exist yung mecha-life like transformers. Hehehehehe

Who knows?
 
Ang masasabi ko lang ay malaki ang universe at marami pang di pa nadidiscover lalo na yung other solar system, inside ng bawat galaxies at other life forms. Di lang tayo as human na exist sa universe na ito.

Pwede rin mag-exist yung mecha-life like transformers. Hehehehehe

Who knows?
May ilalabas daw na announcement ang NASA sa latest finding nila sa Europa, isa sa moons ng Jupiter.

To help us wrap our heads around our place in the Universe, perhaps the following images would help improve our perspective:

LANIAKEA: Home of the Milky Way
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LANIAKEA: Home of the Milky Way: Profile View
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LANIAKEA and the GREAT ATTRACTOR
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LANIAKEA: OUR HOME SUPERCLUSTER

COSMIC FILAMENTS: Connecting Superclusters and Individual Galaxies
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COSMIC FILAMENTS: CLOSEUP VIEW
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Largest Structure in the Universe: The Cosmic Web (Cosmic Filaments)


Intriguing Images: Neural Network and Cosmic Web
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Hercules–Corona Borealis Great Wall - The largest known superstructure in the universe.

It is a huge group of galaxies forming a giant sheet-like pattern. It is about 10 billion light-years long (to put that in proper perspective, the age of the universe itself is around 13 billion years), 7.2 billion light-years wide, and almost 1 billion light-years thick. It is about 10 billion light-years away in the constellations of Hercules and Corona Borealis, hence its name.

The Laniakea Supercluster (Laniakea; also called Local Supercluster or Local SCl) is the galaxy supercluster that is home to the Milky Way and 100,000 other nearby galaxies

The Great Attractor is a gravitational anomaly in intergalactic space within the vicinity of the Hydra-Centaurus Supercluster at the centre of the Laniakea Supercluster that reveals the existence of a localised concentration of mass tens of thousands of times more massive than the Milky Way.

The Great Attractor: Something is Pulling Our Region of the Universe Towards a Colossal Unseen Mass
 

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Waddup Guys

Question: Hitler and other horrible people that caused unforgivable deeds to people, like the jew holocaust, concentration camps, gas chamber, slaugter of million jews if in the belief of atheist that nothing will happen if they die, does it mean that hitler and other horrible people just got away with their atrocities?
 
Waddup Guys

Question: Hitler and other horrible people that caused unforgivable deeds to people, like the jew holocaust, concentration camps, gas chamber, slaugter of million jews if in the belief of atheist that nothing will happen if they die, does it mean that hitler and other horrible people just got away with their atrocities?

Yes. Unfortunately.

No matter any one's belief in heaven and hell as reward or punishment for do-gooders or evildoers, it does not change the fact that such horrible figures of history stand to just get away from their horrendous crimes against humanity.

The Hitlers of history stand as glaring reminder to us that we need effective solutions to human problems now while they are alive and having people being slaughtered right before our eyes, not later in the afterlife when they are supposed to collect their dues either in heaven or hell that do not exist for all their crimes.

What we need is stronger version of a United Nations or something like it with its own effective military force able to deal with individual nations infracting on human rights for whatever excuse. We must remember that even Hitler saw himself as a savior and defender of the Christian faith out to exact revenge on the race that killed the very founder of Christianity even if he was one of their own. The UN as promulgated now is a lame institution hardly able to meet the objective of its founding and current member nations. We need a UN able to disentangle itself from sovereignty claims while criminal leaders conduct massive, systematic genocide within their borders.
 
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Mga Bro, atheist or agnostic u are, the reason why you live and still breathing and why you're born - is still unexplainable. it can't be explained why we are still here. why the others are no longer here. why the others are suffering. we have each of our own purpose and that purpose we do not know. we are here to explore and find out that one. even scientists cannot explain how the universe started. but still we the right not to believe. it is called "Free Will". We have the freedom. I respect you guys. But I'm trying to shed some light. Hope you also respect my opinion. Thank you.
 
Mga Bro, atheist or agnostic u are, the reason why you live and still breathing and why you're born - is still unexplainable. it can't be explained why we are still here. why the others are no longer here.
But you think religion has it all covered, don't you? Religion takes great joy in telling you that the reason you're born and you're here on earth is to acknowledge your god and to give all glory to him by letting him takeover your life and sacrificing everything for him in his glory. It exploits the fact that nothing is given, that everyone has to start on a blank and clean slate on this plane of existence, and it undercuts anyone from any self initiative to find one's true calling in life whatever one decides it to be. For those who have not decided what they want to do with their lives, yes, life is unexplainable, and they fall for every chance manipulator out to snatch their souls from under them.

...why the others are suffering. we have each of our own purpose and that purpose we do not know. we are here to explore and find out that one.
Did you find it unnecessary to ask yourself whence all the suffering in this world mostly comes from? If it's not from some demented psychopath of leaders twisted by their own version of god's will, it's those historical rogues out following god's orders to launch their own version of some Crusades or Jihad to punish all the infidels out there. Religion is the most bloodthirsty institution in the world, especially the holy trinity of Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, dragging all adherents to some causes invented by their leaders, giving marching orders to annihilate any one of the three and we've all been fools fighting the wars for this family of Abrahamic religions when their dysfunctional familial enmity against the others does not really concern us. Think about it.

Think about it when the media shows you the bloodied, ruined streets of some Palestinian or Syrian lands littered with the disfigured bodies of dead men, women, and children, of those surviving children now left orphaned by incessant bombings that razed their lands, in the wake of the hatred of Jews and Christians on one side, and the bitter suicidal fury of the Moslems on the other side.

Think about it when you see the extremely famished forlorn look of children barely resembling any child form in the streets of Kenya, Nigeria, or some other nation in Africa, their limbs torn off or their eyes gouged off even from the time they were infants, their families hunted out even when they hid themselves in the perceived safety of wild forests with all the predatory beasts within. What brought on these catastrophes against them? Because the men of Islam could not bear to live with the faces of hated Christians around them.

Think about it when you see similar visions of children in the streets of Serbia, Bosnia or Herzegovina, brought about by the same enmity among groups who called themselves followers of Christ or Mohammed.

Think about it when you see the bloated, decomposing bodies of children among the beaches of Europe and Western Africa, after their boats were turned away by European countries that have had enough of the migrants running away from the hellholes that have become of their former countries in Syria, Libya, or Iraq, their countries hounded day and night by weapons-wielding Islamic zealots, and then pounded upon by the explosion of bombs from the Christian warplanes brought on to counter these Moslem zealots.

Think about it when you realize how many countries—India, Bangladesh, Pakistan; the Philippines and its Mindanao problem—are torn apart by inner strife brought by the simplest irreconcilable matters of belief in heaven or harem in the afterlife.

...even scientists cannot explain how the universe started. but still we the right not to believe. it is called "Free Will". We have the freedom. I respect you guys. But I'm trying to shed some light. Hope you also respect my opinion. Thank you.
There is a good standing body of knowledge about how the universe started. Go and take the time to find out anything about it instead of spouting generalities well circulated in the Dark Ages. Free will is nonexistent in Christianity, so no need to extol it. God has the movie script finished long ago, and the actors that matter. Calvinism is the only honest Christian denomination that freely admits to this critical biblical theology.

I hope you see the light. Thank you.
 
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^This is a painful truth. ;)

I'm not sure if they can accept these painful truth. Most of the people when they feel the pain they will quit.
We they saw a painful truth, they will denied or reject it. They prefer to comfort lies than painful truth.

If you watched Matrix, most of them are living their illusions because of choice. They want to be Jews, Muslim or Christian because of Choice. Voting a leader of each country is still same, so shift will be happened. Choice was created by society to divide the people by their beliefs and perception. But sad to say each choices are still goes to slaughter house. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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You cannot blame religion. It is the PEOPLE that creates the wars that the world is into now. You cannot also say that Islam, Judaism or Christianity are giving orders to the people to rally and start battling or killing innocent lives. It is the MISINTERPRETATION of the writings and scriptures. But if an individual interprets or absorbs the Qur'an or the Holy Bible in the right way, he/she will be enlightened and be worry-free, or in other generalized term, HAPPY. That's why some people are very depressed and even some of them take suicide. It is because they don't have a God with them and in them. Thank you.
 
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