Thank you po sa pag welcome
Sana madami po akong malaman dito
Many people have made this thread a rich treasure trove of ideas as it is, and I have high hopes you find many of them of interest and addressing many questions that I assume you have about the stand of atheists and atheist-agnostics. The fields covered here are wide-ranging and varied: astronomy, physics, biology and evolution (this one is quite the monster topic here, as you will see), relevant social issues, philosophy, political thoughts, all of course pertaining to religious beliefs, specifically in direct opposition to them. Some discussions are civil, some coming off like good banter, and some verging on street fist fights that earned this earned some fines in the form of temporary closures, specially early in its life. So be advised about all of these as you wade through all the materials in this thread. A friendly advice if you were to exchange ideas here is to bring a good amount of thick skin for those not-so-nicely disposed people, and a good dose of wit and humor to go around with the thick skin.
Good luck and thank you.
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Repost: The World Is Changing and the Churches Are Afraid
Last week, a ... commenter ... pointed out that my post “Aid in Dying” had been cited on a blog on the Patheos Catholic channel, Public Catholic, whose author, Rebecca Hamilton, is a member of the Oklahoma state legislature. Needless to say, she was perturbed:
Last night, when I googled euthanasia, I came across a forever-to-be-nameless blog that was chortling over the rise in public acceptance of medical murder, which polite folk like to call euthanasia. This blogger, who earns his literary bread by selling atheism, went on to say that this public approval of killing grandma pits Christians even more solidly against the culture of what’s happening now. This is, the writer said, an “opportunity” for him and his to gain converts.
The question arises: Converts to what?
Certainly not a disbelief in God, since that question never arises in this or most similar analyses. This wasn’t an argument against the existence of God. It was a smug rejoicing in the increasingly widespread public rebellion against God.
After an introduction like that, I thought it’d only be fair for me to drop by and pay her a visit. I posted this comment:
Hi Rebecca, were you talking about my post from earlier this week? If so, I must say I think it’s impolite for you to not link to it and thereby deny your readers the chance to make up their own minds about what I have to say.
But I’d be happy to answer your question: Yes, I was indeed suggesting that this is a way to win converts to the cause of atheism and humanism. The striking contrast between what most people know to be moral and the commandments of the church hierarchy is a way to drive home the point that religion isn’t necessary for ethical behavior, and in some cases is even contrary to it.
Since I don’t believe in God, it’s obviously a category error to accuse me of celebrating “rebellion against God”, just as it would be a category error to accuse you of inciting rebellion against Odin and Thor. However, I’ll gladly plead guilty to advocating that more people reject the teachings of the church, whose morals aren’t based on reason or conscience.
To my surprise, the author replied. She denied that this was a reference to my post, but refused to say who it was in reference to (“None of your business”). Then she deleted the entire exchange from her comment thread.
You can judge for yourself whether this denial is credible. I think her denunciation corresponds too closely to the structure of my post for it to be about anything else. But whether she was writing about me or not, her post is another example of the tendency of religious apologists to criticize atheist arguments while refusing to name or cite the people who make them. Apparently they don’t trust their readers to make up their own minds if pointed towards a different view.
But what I wanted to comment on was the sense of sheer panic implicit in Hamilton’s post. Just look at some of her other over-the-top rhetoric, like this:
A federal judge in Kentucky killed marriage this week…
It was the week that Western civilization, already weakened by the blood loss from the decades-long practice of cultural self-cutting, was given its death sentence. What we were and what we would like to think we still are is now a dead man walking, waiting for the final woof! of implosion that pushes us back down to the muck from which we came.
Well, I can’t speak for the whole country, but I checked just now and my wedding ring is still on my finger; it hasn’t dissolved into thin air because of the ruling of a federal judge in Kentucky. Nor has the slight relaxation of assisted-dying laws caused civilization to collapse into an apocalyptic hellscape, at least as far as I can tell from my front window.
I always feel a tinge of cheer when I see religious apologists raving like this, because it points to a creeping realization that the culture war isn’t going their way. Physician-assisted dying is making gains; marriage equality has gone 5 for 5 in recent months, winning court victories in Utah, Oklahoma, Ohio, Kentucky and Virginia; and each younger generation is more secular than the one before it. Clearly, religious apologists feel the world, which they once thought they owned, is slipping away from them; that they’re losing their privileged status as the sole arbiters of morality. You can understand their anger and desperation in this light.
Naturally, the apologists are eager to cast this as a rebellion against goodness itself. The truth is that their view, which is based on blind obedience to decaying creeds, is being replaced with something better: a morality that’s based on reasoned debate and human well-being. The churches and their advocates still command significant power, but they can no longer just assert that something is God’s will and expect to receive deference. If that prospect frightens and upsets them, perhaps it’s because they don’t have any backup arguments to offer.
source
Johnson City church offers loving response to former pastor who revealed his atheism
A lot of love still exists between Crossroads Christian Church and former pastor Carter Warden.
That’s even though he no longer believes in God.
Now East Tennessee State University’s assistant director of student activities, working in the university’s Student Organization Resource Center, Warden spent the vast majority of his life as a practicing Christian. For much of that time, he was the pastor of large groups of believers.
Living in East Tennessee, he was brought up in the United Methodist faith and eventually found his way to the Church of Christ. He went on to get a bachelor’s degree from Milligan College, then his master’s from the Emmanuel School of Religion.
Those days are now long behind Warden: he recently came out as an atheist at the Freedom From Religion Foundation’s convention in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, after having used the pseudonym “Adam Mann” for nearly 10 years as a founder and part of the Clergy Project.
“I was trapped by the disheartening position of being a member of the clergy who no longer finds himself believing in a god or the supernatural,” Warden said during his speech at the convention, which is in full on the
FFRF’s YouTube page.
Warden has served as a youth pastor, preaching pastor, small groups pastor, worship pastor and the administrative pastor at Gray’s Crossroads Christian Church. It wasn’t bad experiences that turned him away from religion, but studying the arguments of atheists, scientists, philosophers and more.
He emphasized that it was his quest for knowledge that ultimately led him to made the break.
When he realized he didn’t have answers to tough questions he might receive from his fellow believers, he began voraciously educating himself with both Christian and atheist readings.
“Between July 2008 and April 2009, I read over 60 books, listened to hundreds of hours of lectures and debates,” Warden explained. “I watched 25 documentaries and movies. I went through eight college-level courses from the teaching company, on philosophy, evolution, New Testament, world religions, biology and human behavior.
“I balanced it with Christian writers as well as nonbelievers.”
After his vigorous study, Warden asked himself if there was an “an all-knowing, all-powerful, loving, intervening God, as revealed in scripture.”
He concluded that there isn’t.
Warden pointed to one of the foundational stories in the Bible, that of the Garden of Eden, where the Christian God tried to keep mankind away from the Tree of Knowledge.
“Shouldn't that be a red flag to people?” he asked. “Shouldn't that be a warning sign, when open, honest inquiry is discouraged and even squelched?”
For Warden, it was that open inquiry that was his path away from the church. After realizing this about himself, as “Adam Mann,” he reached out to the Clergy Project — which is a group that seeks to provide support, community and hope to current and former religious professionals who no longer hold religious beliefs. The group has approximately 770 members, many of whom hold positions at churches and can’t couple belief with what they see as evidence that disputes many religious claims.
Warden’s experiences with his friends and church family members were all positive, and he hopes to hold onto those relationships in this new chapter of his life. He did have some bumps along the way back from his religious beliefs, but settled on being most honest with himself, his family and loved ones, even if they were members of his church.
It sounds as if he has the support of Crossroads Christian Church.
Curtis Booher, lead minister at that church, gave the Press a statement about his former pastor’s departure from the faith.
“One of the great freedoms given to each person by God is the opportunity to choose to believe or to not believe,” Booher said. “I understand that Carter has chosen, in his words, ‘to discard my faith.’ Our choice is to not discard a relationship with Carter. Carter and his family were a part of Crossroads Christian Church for many years and we still consider them family. We love Carter and we want only good things for him.”
John Shuck knows the situation all too well.
As there are “out” members of the Clergy Project, and those who are still closeted, Shuck is an active member who has been “out” since he headed First Presbyterian Church in Elizabethton. Shuck has since moved to Portland, Oregon, where he’s the pastor at the Southminster Presbyterian Church.
He hosted the radio program “Religion For Life” on WETS 89.5 FM, and it has evolved into its present form, which is called “Progressive Spirit.”
But he knows the pressure of coming out as someone who doesn’t believe in the supernatural but has a career of preaching Scripture, which is rife with claims of the supernatural.
Shuck is technically an atheist, but he said there’s a lot of baggage with that word, and he hopes Warden is able to make this transition under that designation without trouble.
One of their fellow members of the Clergy Project, a current Canadian minister, is facing the possibility of being defrocked because of her admission that she no longer believes.
He said that because the pressure of religious belief is so pervasive, it’s good that Warden — or as Shuck knows him “Adam Mann” — is breaking up what’s considered the standard in a place like East Tennessee.
And whether people are comfortable with the potential of their church’s pastor coming out as an atheist or not, Shuck said the numbers of the Clergy Project continue to grow, and he welcomes it.
Shuck said churches should prepare their congregants for this and help those who lose their belief assimilate into secular society rather than shun them to the point where they’re left with little to nothing.
Warden is unsure of the future, but he’s proud to be openly honest about himself and his lack of beliefs.
“I did not lose my faith — as though it was something that regrettably slipped away — rather I chose to disregard it because it no longer made sense to me,” he said, before later going on to explain what could happen next.
“I don't know what the future holds for me,” he said. “I don't know how my wife or extended family will react or how I'll be treated in my community, If they fault me for being honest, than so be it. I’ll live with reason as my guide, and I'm an atheist.”
