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Atheists and Agnostics Meeting Place

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ang lakas din naman talagang maka good time nung church of the FSM. :lol:
pag pikunin ka talagang asar talo ka
 
guy won the reelection this year but says he's skipping the colander act out of consideration for the person in charge of media relations who spent hours, days entertaining questions from all over the place about the stunt first time. says will focus on the issues facing his constituents since he's already made a point. :lol:

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Adapted from chapter 7 of Patheos chairman Dr. Stephen D. Mumford’s book, American Democracy and the Vatican: Population Growth and National Security (1984). The book is available at Kindle here, and is available to read for free here.


Catholic Hospitals: The Roles They Serve and Don’t Serve

For years after I had completed a doctorate in public health and had worked for some time in hospitals and clinics, I was still under the impression that the Catholic Church substantially supported and administered hospitals solely because of its concern for the social value of health. I assumed that the Church was in the hospital business because of the value of the enterprise. More recently, I have become aware that Catholic hospitals receive billions of dollars in federal monies, although they sharply restrict the delivery of family-planning services. All couples (Catholic and non-Catholic) who use these facilities for fertility related services are provided less than adequate medical care and those who do not have easy access to non-Catholic hospital services find certain choices restricted altogether.

I have learned that bishops regard the building of Catholic hospitals next in importance to the building of churches and schools, not only because of the general social value of hospitals but also because they serve a useful purpose in winning and holding Church members.[31] During times of illness or death, whether one’s own or that of a family member, people are most vulnerable to exploitation. Examples of this exploitation abound. Catholic hospitals are used as partisan and sectarian agencies in spite of public claims by the clergy that they are “community enterprises.” Similarly, priests attempt to impose as much of their moral code as possible on non-Catholics using Catholic hospital services, particularly in such areas as contraceptive sterilization.[32]

Absolutism and Controls (or Morals) and Their Implications for Family Planning

With the recent advances of medicine that have allowed embryo transfers, test-tube babies, and artificial insemination, many Americans have been perplexed by the Catholic Church’s strong negative responses to these advances, given the Church’s so-called pro-life position. However, Americans should not be perplexed.

The Church claims that such conceptions are against “natural” law, and great pains are taken to defend this doctrine with elaborate theological reasoning, all of it sheer nonsense. There is a different reason for its opposition. The very existence of the Church is threatened by these advances. How?

The Catholic Church is an absolute monarchy under absolute and infallible leadership. The Church claims and actually exercises sovereignty over nearly 800 million Catholics. It has a system of law called “canon law,” and, in the “domain” in which the claim of sovereignty is made, canon law is applied. Yet, the Catholic hierarchy exercises this sovereignty without the direct use of force, armies, police, or weapons. How is this possible?

Instead of using physical weapons, the Church uses psychic weapons. The most extreme case was discussed in chapter four: the threat of excommunication. Over the centuries, the Church devised an elaborate system of controls that rely nearly completely upon “psychic terrorism.” The concepts of morals and sins which can only be forgiven by certain members of the hierarchy are examples of controls. Of course, it is purported that both have as their ends “goodness,” and adherents believe this. Yet, some thoughtful people recognize other “ends,” including the maintenance of the power of the Catholic hierarchy and the enhancement and advancement of this power.

All tyrannies in human history that relied upon force have disappeared. Reliance upon force made them conspicuously evil, and people inevitably rose up and destroyed them. What distinguishes the tyranny of the Catholic Church is its explanation of its actions in terms of “virtue.” With the help of great numbers of priests and nuns (today numbering more than one million), the Church has sold the concept of these morals and other controls. Through the Vatican’s constant presentation of the Church’s actions as “virtuous,” recognition of the Church as a tyrant has been thwarted. Characterizing all actions in terms of “goodness” has allowed this tyranny to survive for nearly two thousand years while all others have failed. The effectiveness of the Vatican in convincing the world of the “virtue” of these morals and other controls is best exhibited by American acceptance of the incredible new claim of papal infallibility in the 1870s, despite the fact that it was obviously a move to maintain vast power in the Vatican. It is almost inconceivable that Americans would have accepted this obvious grab for power. (Currently only 50 percent of Catholic Americans believe in the papal claim of infallibility.) The Catholic hierarchy has been appropriately described as a cabal of power that moves under the guise of benevolence. How could this be possible in America?

The pope and the Vatican promote only the most obedient and loyal priests to positions of authority in the hierarchy. It is an extensive review process for promotion of only the most conditioned and indoctrinated. Those who are not are culled as quickly as possible. Hans Kung and Father Drinan are examples. This process assures maintenance of the tyranny but at the same time “changes or adjustments from within” are made most difficult or impossible. In general, this highly obedient hierarchy tells its American priests in great detail what to believe. Usually, the parish priest has no strong inclination toward heretical belief inasmuch as he is the product of the Catholic educational system. A glance at any biographical list of prominent Catholic clergy shows how few of them ever stray from the Catholic educational system.

Since the Vatican has no military apparatus or personnel to physically impose its laws (canons) and maintain and expand its power, it must control its communicants through their minds and through social action. To accomplish this, they use their control over their priests, including American priests.

The Vatican has drawn up a set of rules (morals) by which all must abide. Since the hierarchy had to rely upon more than one million subordinates to ensure that the laity abided by these rules, they had to make these rules simple. The “end” desired by the Church was to out-reproduce non-Catholics everywhere, and many of the rules or laws (morals) of the Church are devoted to this purpose.

To ensure that these rules are enforceable, they made them both simple and absolute. They related to sterilization, abortion, divorce, homosexuality, prostitution, masturbation, and so forth. No exceptions were allowed or ever entertained. Absolutism. With this modality, the Church cannot afford the luxury of exceptions. With interpretations, rules break down.

This, combined with the absolutism imposed by the claim of “infallibility,” is the real source of the opposition of the Catholic Church to family planning and population growth control. So much of the Church is built on the absolutes related to population growth that it cannot even permit “embryonic transfer” without taking a significant risk that the whole system of morals might collapse around them. As soon as the Church begins making exceptions, the whole system of controls would be in jeopardy. Ultimately, there would be so many exceptions and so many special cases that moral judgment would have to shift to the local priests and then to local people. The power of the Vatican would be considerably weakened.

If one examines all of the sex-related prohibitions of the Church, the common denominator is the promotion of the quantity of Catholics produced! This is not a coincidence. There are few exceptions. The needs of the Church with regard to a cadre of celibate priests were discussed earlier, as was the fact that Catholic education represents the rock upon which the whole Church rests and that celibate nuns who work for low wages are the backbone of that system.[33] These two exceptions represent “higher order” needs of the Church than reproduction. Imposed celibacy certainly represents the highest form of perversion of the “natural order,” yet celibacy of nuns and priests is an additional absolute.


Notes

[31] Paul Blanshard, American Freedom and Catholic Power, p. 117.
[32] Ibid., p. 123.
[33] Ibid., p. 155.

About the Author
Dr. Stephen Mumford is the founder and President of the North Carolina-based Center for Research on Population and Security. He has his doctorate in Public Health. His principal research interest has been the relationship between world population growth and national and global security. He has been called to provide expert testimony before the U.S. Congress on the implications of world population growth.

Dr. Mumford has decades of international experience in fertility research where he is widely published, and has addressed conferences worldwide on new contraceptive technologies and the stresses to the security of families, societies and nations that are created by continued uncontrolled population growth. Using church policy documents and writings of the Vatican elite, he has introduced research showing the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church as the principal power behind efforts to block the availability of contraceptive services worldwide.

In addition to his books on biomedical and social aspects of family planning, as well as scientific articles in more than a score of journals, Dr. Mumford’s major works include: The Life and Death of NSSM 200: How the Destruction of Political Will Doomed a U.S. Population Policy (Research Triangle Park, North Carolina: Center for Research on Population and Security, 1996); The Pope and the New Apocalypse: The Holy War Against Family Planning (Research Triangle Park, North Carolina: Center for Research on Population and Security, 1986); and American Democracy and the Vatican: Population Growth and National Security (Amherst, New York: Humanist Press, 1984).



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natawa ako dun sa may computer ,,click restart ha ha ha ,, diba nga they claim the god in the bible is All Knowing ,,then nagsisi sya kung bakit nya ginawa ang Tao ??? , , , ang isasagot nila FREE WILL ,,Hay Nakoooooo ,, , just imagine ,,isa kang Creator at ang gusto mo lang ay may sumusunod sayo o mag pe - praise sayo ,,lalagyan mo pa nang mga kundisyon ??at pag Napalpak papatayin mo sila ??? Larawan iyon ng kabobohan at Makasarili !!!

Kailan ba sila Magigising !!! , ,
 
natawa ako dun sa may computer ,,click restart ha ha ha ,, diba nga they claim the god in the bible is All Knowing ,,then nagsisi sya kung bakit nya ginawa ang Tao ??? , , , ang isasagot nila FREE WILL ,,Hay Nakoooooo ,, , just imagine ,,isa kang Creator at ang gusto mo lang ay may sumusunod sayo o mag pe - praise sayo ,,lalagyan mo pa nang mga kundisyon ??at pag Napalpak papatayin mo sila ??? Larawan iyon ng kabobohan at Makasarili !!!

Kailan ba sila Magigising !!! , ,

The worst trapping of religion is blind obedience. Pastors and priests make a habit of reminding the faithful not to trust their own selves or their own brains/judgments, and the adherents blindly obey it and take insult from people who challenge them. In other words daylight brainwashing and some people are okay with it. If we consider the amount of liberating information available today, the previous statements just show it is almost hopeless to change people in this kind of mindset. So it all amounts to battle in the classrooms, etc., in the young minds for change to happen. The old will just have to bring their habits with them to the grave. All that information amounts to nothing if the brainwashed will not consider them in order to challenge what had been fed their minds hehe.

Religious establishments have to stigmatize thinking for one's self in order for their rackets to survive. So they make one feel guilty and dirty for trying to rely on one's own mind. :)

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Admittedly and amazingly, churches and other denominations do not mind as much when assaulting the use of one's mind by going as far as this...

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I mean, how do churchmen get away with these...? Or how do self-respecting churchgoers allow such in-your-face insult hurled at them?
 

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Pwede ko bang iiwan to dito as my first post?

Hi everyone :D

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Any rational person being completely honest with him- or herself will have no qualms with the content of your post. Ang unang problema mo diyan eh yung overwhelming number of gods, which could go easily by the thousands. So sino sa kanila talaga? Now you could easily say that there must be thousands of ways you could go to hell depending on the version of each god system, hehe.
 
mas lamang pa yan sa 101 days to die hehe.

kaya nga in the argument about the existence of god, granting there is really a god or god exists, so how sure are you that your god is the one true god? eh lahat yata sila nagciclaim na sila ang tama.
 
pag tinanggal mo yung money factor sa libong religions na yan, ilan na lang kaya matitira kung meron man, haha.

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mas lamang pa yan sa 101 days to die hehe.

kaya nga in the argument about the existence of god, granting there is really a god or god exists, so how sure are you that your god is the one true god? eh lahat yata sila nagciclaim na sila ang tama.

nothing that a couple of weeks looking over and researching the evolution of religions will not cure, hehe. the deluge of information will surely shock the brave and willing. how those pantheons of gods in sumerian, mesopotamian, egyptian, indian, greek, roman, canaanite and levant cultures adopted, absorbed, mixed the characteristics of gods from neighboring or distant civilizations will sober up anyone in no time.
 
lahat sila mawawala. :lol:

wala naman yatang relihiyon na mahirap.
 
kailangan natin ng top ten poorest religion para diyan. di ba naiiba, hehe.

may experiment dati nagpanggap yung researcher as a guru. gulat sya dami nagkainteres at nagpamember sa cult nya. yung ibang rich members are willing to donate so much money for his "benevolent" cause. mas pinagtaka nya, kahit na dumating yung point na inamin nya na for research lang yung effort nya, some of his converts appealed to him to continue what he's been doing.

yan, gusto ng tao kumita may malalim na idea na yan: the needs of some people cut so deep that nothing will change their initial impression. and if some of them have mucho dinero? just wow. :lol:
 
pag tinanggal mo yung money factor sa libong religions na yan, ilan na lang kaya matitira kung meron man, haha.

tama , ,

lagi ko sinasabi sa tatay ko na pastor na "ihanap nyo ako ng religion na hindi gumagamit ng Pera dun ako sasama "

sabi nya wala nun , , ha ha ha ha :rofl:
 
religion: one of the most lucrative enterprises in the planet. and one of the oldest profession in the world. parang prositution, isa sa pinakamantandang profession. now there's the irony, again: religions promise you heaven in the afterlife, prosties give you heaven now. saan ka? :lol:

maraming instant millionaires ang religion na mabilis din bumagsak because of scandals and impropriety. tsk, tsk, even our *holy men* are not safe against the temptatiions of the world. remember the two jims—swaggart and bakker? hehe
 
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religion: one of the most lucrative enterprises in the planet. and one of the oldest profession in the world. parang prositution, isa sa pinakamantandang profession. now there's the irony, again: religions promise you heaven in the afterlife, prosties give you heaven now. saan ka? :lol:

maraming instant millionaires ang religion na mabilis din bumagsak because of scandals and impropriety. tsk, tsk, even our *holy men* are not safe against the temptatiions of the world. remember the two jims—swaggart and bakker? hehe

correct , , ,
 
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Myth Education (Onus Books, 2017) is a fabulous book that looks with humor (but not shying away from the nitty gritty) at several pantheons of worldwide deities. David Fletcher (formerly of the awesome podcast Reasonable Doubts) has collated some wonderful artwork to accompany each of the deities discussed therein. There are over 100 pieces of art to bring these myths alive.

Below, you will find a list of the top five deities that Dave has compiled for your delectation.


Top 5 Deities To Believe In


It’s easy to not believe in a monotheistic god. Monotheistic gods, I argue, are pretty unappealing. Not only are they often stern, authoritarian, vengeful pricks, but they are (let’s be honest) pretty boring. It’s not their fault, of course, it is more or less a requirement of the job. If you’re the god of everything there isn’t much room for specialization or even characterization. I’m quite content accepting the idea that those divine solo-acts aren’t real and am genuinely thankful that they aren’t. While I don’t believe in the gods of polytheistic religions either, there are some deities that, I admit, would be nice to have around from time to time.

In an effort to capture the zeitgeist of our time, here is one of those “listicles” millennials are so fond of. Here are five deities that I might choose if I was forced to believe in a deity. If you want to pick your own favorite deities, I highly recommend you pick up a copy of my new book Myth Education which is available now and features nearly one hundred gods, goddesses, and other supernatural creatures for you to choose from.

5. Oshun
Oshun, the Yoruban goddess (orisha is the more accurate term but why quibble?), is pretty great. Throughout the mythologies of the world it is not uncommon to find the figure of the first woman who, through her greed, ignorance, or impetuousness, brings everything bad into the world. From Eve to Pandora, women are blamed for inflicting mankind with sin, disease, the Star Wars prequels, Donald Trump, and everything else that is evil and wrong in the world. Oshun, however, flips the script. Oshun, the lone representative of womankind, is sent from Heaven with sixteen men to finish off the creation process here on Earth. Surprising to no women at all, the men refuse to listen to any of Oshun’s input. So Oshun proves just how important women are by creating a group of super-powered women who prevent the men from accomplishing anything until they agree to work alongside, rather than against the women. She’s the creator of civil disobedience, peaceful protests, and the goddess of fertility, love, and not taking any crap from men. Oshun is the kind of deity I’d be happy to bend the knee for, if only she existed.

4. Loki
Several of the deities on this list are there because they are inspirational or aspirational figures. They are deities who represent the better angels of our nature and send positive messages of community and compassion. Loki is not that type of figure. Loki is just entertaining. The Norse Loki may not be as handsome as the sexy, sexy Tom Hiddleston, but he’s even more fun to watch. He dissembles better than Richard III, and spins tales more proficiently than Rumpelstiltskin spins straw into gold. Sure he causes all kinds of trouble, but more often than not, Loki is the sole victim of his own tricks: he gets his lips sewn shut and his testicles tortured, he gets impregnated by a horse, and even designs the very net that is used to capture him. He constantly traverses boundaries both literal and metaphorical. To be clear, I’m not suggesting that we start worshipping Loki, or even that his type of behavior should be emulated or praised. All I’m saying is: if there had to be a god, wouldn’t it be nice to have a dynamic, charismatic, and amusing one?

3. Bes
The Egyptian pantheon is filled with colorful and unusual looking figures. There are deities with cat heads, dog heads, falcon heads, cow heads, ibis heads, crocodile heads, snake heads, frog heads, lion heads, beetles for heads, and whatever the hell Seth’s head is supposed to be, as well as gods with blue, green, or black skin and women with wings, horns, and/or furniture on their heads. Amongst the entire menagerie, however, Bes still stands out. Rather than being tall and lean like most Egyptian gods, Bes is short and squat. He has big, round ears, a beard reminiscent of a lion’s mane, and is most often depicted with his cartoonishly large tongue sticking out of his up-turned mouth. In short (pardon the pun): Bes is adorable. It isn’t (just) his physical appearance that earns him a spot on the list of gods I’d like to believe in. As cuddly as he appears, his function is even more endearing. Bes is the stalwart protector of some of the most vulnerable members of society: children. Even before birth Bes is there to help women through pregnancy and the historically dangerous process of childbirth. Once the mini-humans have safely squirmed into the world, Bes keeps them safe from various dangers, both external (such as disease and hungry, hungry hippos) and internal (like nightmares). But wait! It gets better: Bes keeps all those nasty gremlins at bay by sticking out his tongue at them and doing a silly dance. Not only does he keep children safe, he does it in a kid-friendly manner. What, I ask you, could be more adorable than a baby-protecting dwarf doing a jig to scare away monsters?

2. Tlazolteotl
The Aztec goddess Tlazolteotl makes this list for purely utilitarian reasons. I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but human beings have made a bit of a mess of this planet. Both literally and figuratively, there is a lot of shit that we’ve dumped onto the pale blue dot which has been nice enough to provide us with residence. Tlazolteotl is just the goddess we need to clean it all up. No, she’s not some benevolent earth goddess who can magically reverse climate change like that thing from Moana; Tlazolteotl is a filth-eater. Rather than passing judgement or forcing you to say x number of “Hail Mary”s, she is happy to hear your confessions and chowing down on your shame and guilt is all the payment she requires. She’ll gladly lap up your dirty secrets like a divine version of Robert Mueller, but she also eats literal dirt. Just imagine if we had a goddess around to eat our garbage, pollutants, and piles of poo. We could continue to destroy the Earth with total abandon, and no regard for consequences and it’d only make the deity happier! No special sacrifices needed, no paying lip-service to being “stewards of the Earth”, we can just keep doing all the horribly shit we’re already doing and it’d be nothing more than feast for Tlazolteotl. Why clean up our act when Tlazolteotl can do it for us?

1. Kuan Yin
Ok, this is a bit of a cheat. Kuan Yin is not a god. Kuan Yin is, rather, a bodhisattva. Bodhisattvas are Buddhist figures who have attained enlightenment, but rather than taking on full buddhahood and leaving the world behind, bodhisattvas stick around to help bring others to enlightenment. Bodhisattvas are not deities, but are godlike enough to be included here. Especially because Kuan Yin is awesome. In all stripes of Buddhism, including the decidedly non-theistic forms, Kuan Yin is one of the most important and recognizable figures. Also called Avalokiteshvara, Kwannon, and various other names (depending on language or culture of origin), Kuan Yin is always regarded as “The One Who Hears the Cries of the World.” While even Kuan Yin’s sex is inconsistent (because mercy knows no particular sex or gender expression), they are always a figure of deep mercy and compassion. Often depicted with dozens of arms, Kuan Yin is there to help those in need in any manner they require. If you’re hungry she offers food, if cold he offers shelter, if you’re stranded somewhere and your cell phone is below 15% she’ll show up with a charger cord, or if you just need a hug he always has an extra couple of arms to help you out. Given the state of the world (war, starvation, oppression, abuse, Trump) it would be wonderful to have an all-merciful, all-loving pseudo-deity like Kuan Yin around.

Since, I argue, none of these figures actually exists we don’t get the benefit of their divine aid. Which, frankly, sucks because it would be great to have a god or gods who cleaned up after us, looked after those in need, stood up for equality, mercy, and compassion, and kept us entertained. Without godly guides to save us, what are we humans to do? Maybe (and I’m just spitballing here) we could learn to rely on and be reliable to each other, and together we can be the arms of Kuan Yin and we can do the heavy-lifting required to clean up the messes we’ve made. Myths can provide us with some great lessons, even without believing in the existence of these or any gods. Those things that are good and admirable about these figures should be emulated to the best of one’s abilities. We don’t need these deities to be real to use them as powerful symbols. Stand up for what’s right like Oshun, break boundaries like Loki, protect like Bes, clean up your shit like Tlazolteotl, and show the compassion of Kuan Yin.

That being said, do not emulate Tlazolteotl too literally — eating poop is really never a good idea.


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Does Your Church Have Secrets? FaithLeaks Wants To Know All About Them


Over the past year, the website MormonLeaks.io has published a number of internal Church documents that its leaders would never want you to see.

Those include leaked videos, a Powerpoint presentation with a slide about why people are leaving Mormonism, a document urging bishops to ask intrusive questions about children’s sex lives, and a disturbing exchange between a parent and a Mormon leader.

The site’s founder, Ryan McKnight, now hopes to duplicate that success for other religions.

McKnight and Ethan Dodge (a technical advisor) just launcheda new site called FaithLeaks.


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FaithLeaks, like MormonLeaks, is founded on the belief that increased transparency results in fewer untruths, less corruption, and less abuse in any organization.
It provides the same service of anonymizing sources from all religions, religious nonprofits, cults, and creeds with documented information they believe deserves to be made public.

Hear that, Jehovah’s Witnesses? Scientologists? Megachurch pastors whose finances are kept hidden from your own congregations?

This could be fun.

I asked McKnight what he hoped to accomplish — and whether he really believed this would generate anything newsworthy — and his response focused on transparency and honesty:

When I founded MormonLeaks in 2016 I never imagined that it would have the success that it did. I think it is safe to say that we have had a very real impact on advancing the discussion of transparency within Mormonism.
Based on feedback from people from various different religions and my own passion for the subject matter, I wanted to take this message to a wider audience. I am very proud of what we have done at MormonLeaks and I have no doubt we will be just as successful, if not more successful, with FaithLeaks.

Religions have a moral and ethical responsibility to be transparent to the public. To their members who are donating money for the advancement of the cause and to the public in general who have granted them tax-exempt status.

Dodge told me this project grew from a talk he gave at DefCon, the cybersecurity event, where he spoke about MormonLeaks.

After getting off stage I was approached by multiple people both current and former members of a wide range of religions and cults expressing interest in launching a similar project for their respective org.

Even weeks after giving the talk, I was receiving emails from people that were in attendance also wanting to team up. I was thrilled and quickly began talks with a couple people about launching individual projects for each organization.

This quickly became overwhelming as I spend anywhere from 10 to 20 hours a week on MormonLeaks and that would easily multiply per new project. What’s more is most of the people I was talking to didn’t necessarily want to be involved long term with the project.

That’s when it became obvious to me that something like FaithLeaks had to exist.

It’s still going to be just as overwhelming, and I’m ready for that, but these people that I spoke with can still be involved on demand should we receive documents concerning their religion. It is the ideal situation.

The non-profit organization overseeing both the Mormon and overall leak sites is called the Truth and Transparency Foundation, and donations to that group help keep both sites going.
 

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WEEKEND MUSINGS



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Gonna print one of it in the future kaso wala yung real design hope I can find it
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