Guys.. i dunno kung totoo toh.. pero prang totoo eh..

[Pearlista]

You can have either God's omniscience or human free will, but you can't have both.

you're just looking at one side of the whole picture bro, "God's omniscience" enabled Him to give us free will, I don't know how or why, but still it's there, kasi how could you justify being able to do something bad at the face of a powerful and benevolent God?

Are the authors of the book you are talking about seen God personally? I thought your God is beyond space and time? BTW, what are these books? Bible?

Tapos,naka sulat din noon eh nag-e-exist daw si Zues, totoo ba si Zues? Tapos (again), merong faith ang mga Hindus nag-e-exist ang gods nila, so since they have faith can we say that their gods exist?

and other people also claim they have seen other kinds of gods (like in tribes). Others even claim they hear the voices of dead celebrity. Others claim they are Jesus.

I believe in the existence of dinosaurs because it is supportable by logic and scientific evidences. How about the authors of the book you were talking about?

I believe there is a difference between faith and fallacy.. please explain the logical and scientific evidences you're talking about..

What good can one get out of these?

what good indeed?

Also do you think the parents of a child with autism/downsyndrome chose their babies to be autistic or to have downsyndrome?

the same as no God will gladly give a burden to his children that his children could not overcome..

I didnt mean the a-bomb. Japan is in a major fault line diba? Meaning maraming earthquakes doon. Did the Japanese chose to live there? Ofcourse not.

okay then, so ang ipinahihiwatig ng mga post mo about natural calamities is: si God ang may kasalanan, so it's wrong for men to die? imagine a world without calamities or sickness of some sort, then how could you define 'natural death'? kung walang mamamatay, then, ano nang mangyayari sa mundo? overpopulation, wars, survival of the fittest.. you're asking for something that would result in a cascade of events na iisa lang ang patutunguhan: end of civilization..

Again, please answer my question. Is it just to punish your grandx100 children for the sins you committed?

of course not.. then is it just okay to be doubted and even shunned by some hard-headed fools for making the world as perfect as possible and for sacrificing your own son for the salvation of all men?..
something to ponder about guys..

 

[chervin1112]

God has a good reason kung bakit nya pinapahintulutan ang ganun... maybe to set an example.. .. hindi ba sa ating mundo may mga napaparusahan dhil sa hindi pagsunod sa batas.. ung iba ay napaparusahan ng kamtayan...

Kung tayo ay nananalig sa diyos sya ay proprotektahan tayo mula sa mga nagpapahirap sa atin... God will protect his children..dba?

hindi ba dahil din sa kasamaan sa mundo kaya niya gnawa un. para mabawasan ang masasama at tayo ay magbalik sa kanya..dahil sa kasamaan tayo ay lumalayo sa kanya at nakakalimutan natin xa..



nakasaad din po sa Romans 6:23


"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in union with the Messiah Jesus our Lord."

 

[PINOY_RADICAL]

you're just looking at one side of the whole picture bro, "God's omniscience" enabled Him to give us free will, I don't know how or why, but still it's there, kasi how could you justify being able to do something bad at the face of a powerful and benevolent God?

There is a problem with God's omniscience and us having freewill. If we have free will, then we can do anything we want right? If God is omniscient, meaning he already knows what will happen to us, then it only means that we can't have free will. We can't have 'free will' if God already knows what will happen because our actions are already programed. So it is either God is omniscient and we dont have free will or vice versa. They both contradict.

I believe there is a difference between faith and fallacy.. please explain the logical and scientific evidences you're talking about..

Please answer my questions so that you could understand what I mean. Ponder on them.

I believe that the dinosaurs existed before although I have not seen the actual fossils because the fossils were already accepted and were already under the scrutiny of scientific methods and the scientific community. Meaning they were already studied and experimented and the like. They are already considered facts. (And so are the fossils of the early humans.)

Now, how about your God? How did the authors of the books(please name them) you were talking knew about what to write? Did the authors really experienced and saw God personally and concluded that God exist? Argument from experience is really a weak way of proving God's existence.

Also other people from other cultures also experience other kind or form of god/s. Can we also conclude that their god/s exist simply because they have experienced them?

what good indeed?

Don't throw the question back at me. I don't know the answer. It was really meant for you. Tell me and us here what good can one or us get by the many unnecessary sufferings our world face? (Unknown purpose defense? soul-making theodicy?)

the same as no God will gladly give a burden to his children that his children could not overcome..

A powerful, loving, and moral God who can't prevent at least some of the (unnecessary) evil and sufferings.

okay then, so ang ipinahihiwatig ng mga post mo about natural calamities is: si God ang may kasalanan, so it's wrong for men to die? imagine a world without calamities or sickness of some sort, then how could you define 'natural death'? kung walang mamamatay, then, ano nang mangyayari sa mundo? overpopulation, wars, survival of the fittest.. you're asking for something that would result in a cascade of events na iisa lang ang patutunguhan: end of civilization..

Who told you that I blame God? Can you quote me on that? I never blame God.

I also did not said that it is wrong to die. Where did you get that? I know that we would all die. That is not the issue here.

of course not.. then is it just okay to be doubted and even shunned by some hard-headed fools for making the world as perfect as possible and for sacrificing your own son for the salvation of all men?..
something to ponder about guys..

If not then why did your God considered all men after the eating of the apple incident at the garden of eden as sinners?

How did you know that the man who died in the cross was the son of a God? Bible? There are lots of people now that are claiming that they are the son of God/Jesus. How come you don't believe in them?

 

[Pearlista]

There is a problem with God's omniscience and us having freewill. If we have free will, then we can do anything we want right? If God is omniscient, meaning he already knows what will happen to us, then it only means that we can't have free will. We can't have 'free will' if God already knows what will happen because our actions are already programed. So it is either God is omniscient and we dont have free will or vice versa. They both contradict.



Please answer my questions so that you could understand what I mean. Ponder on them.

I believe that the dinosaurs existed before although I have not seen the actual fossils because the fossils were already accepted and were already under the scrutiny of scientific methods and the scientific community. Meaning they were already studied and experimented and the like. They are already considered facts. (And so are the fossils of the early humans.)

Now, how about your God? How did the authors of the books(please name them) you were talking knew about what to write? Did the authors really experienced and saw God personally and concluded that God exist? Argument from experience is really a weak way of proving God's existence.

Also other people from other cultures also experience other kind or form of god/s. Can we also conclude that their god/s exist simply because they have experienced them?



Don't throw the question back at me. I don't know the answer. It was really meant for you. Tell me and us here what good can one or us get by the many unnecessary sufferings our world face? (Unknown purpose defense? soul-making theodicy?)



A powerful, loving, and moral God who can't prevent at least some of the (unnecessary) evil and sufferings.



Who told you that I blame God? Can you quote me on that? I never blame God.

I also did not said that it is wrong to die. Where did you get that? I know that we would all die. That is not the issue here.



If not then why did your God considered all men after the eating of the apple incident at the garden of eden as sinners?

How did you know that the man who died in the cross was the son of a God? Bible? There are lots of people now that are claiming that they are the son of God/Jesus. How come you don't believe in them?

I don't have the answers to your question for now, but then just to satisfy my curiosity, do you mind explaining the 'logical facts' that convinced you that there is no God?

 

[PINOY_RADICAL]

I don't have the answers to your question for now, but then just to satisfy my curiosity, do you mind explaining the 'logical facts' that convinced you that there is no God?

Atheists don't believe in God because no one can prove its existence.

 

[Pearlista]

Atheists don't believe in God because no one can prove its existence.

-*- so you think that the billions of humans who believe in God are either blind or just misguided?

 

[momo27]

ahh.. ok po..
eh ask lng po..
pra saan po ung [ You shall not kill sa ten commandments ]
eh kung ok lng pla pumatay in the will of god dapat ala n un s ten commandments..
mali po b aq??
paki linaw nmn po.. ngu2luhan n xe aq weh.. thx po...

MALINAW NAMAN PO EHH...







YOU SHALL NOT KILL! RIGHT?









HINDI UN "WE"













UTOS NEA UN SA ATIN HINDI SA SARILI NYA NA GUMAWA SA ATIN..
















sO wala tau dapat pagdiskusyunan db?











peace sa lahat.. SANA NAKATULONG AKO!

 

[callmejep]

wooohhhh,, momo27,,, ang galing mo,, hahaha,,, yan na ang sagot sa lahat ng ating mga katanungan,,, wala na magtatalo,,, di ba nasa rules yung bawal ang religious debates,,, may kanya kanya po tayong paniniwala,,, at kung wala kang pinaniniwalaan, huwag ka makipagaway sa iba,,, yun lang yun,,,

 

[dhatziz]

ang laki ng point ni momo27....
ano pa kaya pwedeng ikontra dun...?parang wla na....

 

[tj_cute]

Totoo naman lahat ng nakasaad sa biblia. Ang tanong eh yung Dios ba mismo ang pumatay.

 

[neyney00]

i believe na lahat ng tao at bagay ay pagaari ng dyos, kaya pwede nyang gawin kung anu man ang gustuhin nya sa atin, he created us/all and he can destroy us/all. pero isipin natin na lahat ng nasirang mga tao, na yung napaka konting tao na yon ay kapalit ng magandang buhay sa napakaraming tao at sa mga dadating pa.

guide me if lihis na pinagsasabe ko ha

 

[PINOY_RADICAL]

-*- so you think that the billions of humans who believe in God are either blind or just misguided?

Ad popolum. It does not follow na maraming believers eh tama silang lahat. I say yes.

anyways about sa question mo na 'to.

okay, I won't answer sa usual answer na God gave us life so He has every right to take it..
that perspective will bring us back to the notion of evil, if God is the Creator of everything, then where did evil come from?
tanong ko lang for everybody, in your minds, how do you portray "evil"? some sort of entity?

We naturally tend to picture evil as a thing—a black cloud, or a dangerous storm, or a grimacing face, or dirt. But these pictures mislead us. If God is the Creator of all things and evil is a thing, then God is the Creator of evil, and he is to blame for its existence. No, evil is not a thing but a wrong choice, or the damage done by a wrong choice. Evil is no more a positive thing than blindness is. But it is just as real. It is not a thing, but it is not an illusion.

Second, the origin of evil is not the Creator but the creature's freely choosing sin and selfishness. Take away all sin and selfishness and you would have heaven on earth. Even the remaining physical evils would no longer rankle and embitter us. Saints endure and even embrace suffering and death as lovers embrace heroic challenges. But they do not embrace sin..."

Please define evil muna.

If you are talking about the evil na beyond the control of man, like storms, tsunamis, diseases and the like, then they are natural. Our earth is not only harmonious but also chaotic.

kasi parang "where did evil came from? (based on the bible/religion" yung question mo eh.)

 

[Pearlista]

Please define evil muna.

If you are talking about the evil na beyond the control of man, like storms, tsunamis, diseases and the like, then they are natural. Our earth is not only harmonious but also chaotic.

kasi parang "where did evil came from? (based on the bible/religion" yung question mo eh.)

I was asking how do you portray evil.. yung opinion mo..

 

[Pearlista]

There is a problem with God's omniscience and us having freewill. If we have free will, then we can do anything we want right? If God is omniscient, meaning he already knows what will happen to us, then it only means that we can't have free will. We can't have 'free will' if God already knows what will happen because our actions are already programed. So it is either God is omniscient and we dont have free will or vice versa. They both contradict.

take for example this analogy:
God passively seeing the infinite future in no way alters it, anymore than us reading a history book influences the past by simply observing it retrospectively. However, He might choose (or not) to read any chapter or the ending, or open the book at any page.
we can only guess kung ano ang purpose ng Diyos for giving us free will, pero one thing is for sure: free will bestowed by God to men is the cause of evil..

Don't throw the question back at me. I don't know the answer. It was really meant for you. Tell me and us here what good can one or us get by the many unnecessary sufferings our world face? (Unknown purpose defense? soul-making theodicy?)

eto ba yun?

So you are telling me that hurricanes is a must for our survival? Why didnt God designed the earth better for our survival?People killing hurricanes(and earth quakes) are not really necessary. Why did god created the world this way? this would tell us that the earth is not "intelligently designed".

How about down syndrome? Autism? Rape? What good can one get out of these? Please enlighten us

in your staement, you're arguing na God could've made a "more" perfect world? na sufferings and evil could've been banished entirely? there goes the problem, without these sufferings, hindi natin madidifferentiate ang little at great suffering.. sige nga, for a person who has never experienced pain, how could you describe a pin prick? or the death of his whole family?

I believe that the dinosaurs existed before although I have not seen the actual fossils because the fossils were already accepted and were already under the scrutiny of scientific methods and the scientific community. Meaning they were already studied and experimented and the like. They are already considered facts. (And so are the fossils of the early humans.)

Now, how about your God? How did the authors of the books(please name them) you were talking knew about what to write? Did the authors really experienced and saw God personally and concluded that God exist? Argument from experience is really a weak way of proving God's existence.

Also other people from other cultures also experience other kind or form of god/s. Can we also conclude that their god/s exist simply because they have experienced them?

I don't know..

A powerful, loving, and moral God who can't prevent at least some of the (unnecessary) evil and sufferings.

here we go again..

Who told you that I blame God? Can you quote me on that? I never blame God.

I also did not said that it is wrong to die. Where did you get that? I know that we would all die. That is not the issue here.

no, that's what you're stating, na with an Omniscient and Omnipresent God, no one should suffer, no one should die..

If not then why did your God considered all men after the eating of the apple incident at the garden of eden as sinners?

eto:

hough Adam's sinful act is not the responsibility of his descendants, the state of human nature that has resulted from that sinful act has consequences that plague them: "Human nature, without being entirely corrupted, has been harmed in its natural powers, is subject to ignorance, suffering and the power of death, and has a tendency to sin. This tendency is called concupiscence" (Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, 77), but is distinct from original sin itself, since it remains even when original sin is remitted.

How did you know that the man who died in the cross was the son of a God? Bible? There are lots of people now that are claiming that they are the son of God/Jesus. How come you don't believe in them?

simply because we use our common sense.. do you really think na Christians are so naive as to think every opportunist as the Son of God or as being possesed by God's spirit? preposterous..

 

[igop4life]

RAINBOW REVELATION
Yoko Ono

Bless you for your anger.
For it is a sign of rising energy.
Direct not to your family, waste not on your enemy.
Transform the energy to versatilityAnd it will bring you prosperity.

Bless you for your sorrow
For it is a sign of vulnerability.
Share not with your family, direct not to yourself.
Transform the energy to sympathy
And it will bring you love.

Bless you for your greed
For it is a sign of great capacity.
Direct not to your family. Direct not to the world.
Transform the energy to giving.
Give as much as you wish to take,
And you will receive satisfaction.

Bless you for your jealousy
For it is a sign of empathy
Direct not to your family, direct not to your friends.
Transform the energy to admiration
And what you admire
Will become part of your life

Bless you for your fear
For it is a sign of wisdom.
Do not hold yourself in fear.
Transform the energy to flexibility
And you will be free
From what you fear.

Bless you for your search of direction
For it is a sign of aspiration.
Transform the energy to receptivity
And the direction will come to you.

Bless you for the times you see evil.
Evil is energy mishandled and it feeds on your support.
Feed not and it will self-destruct.
Shed light and it will cease to be.

Bless you for the times you feel no love.
Open your heart to life anyway
and in time you will find
love in you.

Bless you, bless you, bless you.
Bless you for what you are.
You are a sea of goodness, a sea of love.Count your blessings every day for they are your protection
Which stands between you and what you wish not.
Count your curses and they will be a wall
Which stands between you and what you wish.
The world has all that you need
And you have the power
to attract what you wish.
Wish for health, wish for joy.
Remember you are loved.

I love you!
y.o.

 

[igop4life]

Bless you for the times you see evil.
Evil is energy mishandled and it feeds on your support.
Feed not and it will self-destruct.
Shed light and it will cease to be.

 

[igop4life]

take for example this analogy:
God passively seeing the infinite future in no way alters it, anymore than us reading a history book influences the past by simply observing it retrospectively. However, He might choose (or not) to read any chapter or the ending, or open the book at any page.
we can only guess kung ano ang purpose ng Diyos for giving us free will, pero one thing is for sure: free will bestowed by God to men is the cause of evil..

eto ba yun?

in your staement, you're arguing na God could've made a "more" perfect world? na sufferings and evil could've been banished entirely? there goes the problem, without these sufferings, hindi natin madidifferentiate ang little at great suffering.. sige nga, for a person who has never experienced pain, how could you describe a pin prick? or the death of his whole family?

I don't know..


here we go again..

no, that's what you're stating, na with an Omniscient and Omnipresent God, no one should suffer, no one should die..

eto:


simply because we use our common sense.. do you really think na Christians are so naive as to think every opportunist as the Son of God or as being possesed by God's spirit? preposterous..

Bless you for the times you see evil.
Evil is energy mishandled and it feeds on your support.
Feed not and it will self-destruct.
Shed light and it will cease to be.

 

[PINOY_RADICAL]

take for example this analogy:
God passively seeing the infinite future in no way alters it, anymore than us reading a history book influences the past by simply observing it retrospectively. However, He might choose (or not) to read any chapter or the ending, or open the book at any page.
we can only guess kung ano ang purpose ng Diyos for giving us free will, pero one thing is for sure: free will bestowed by God to men is the cause of evil..

eto ba yun?

So you are telling me that hurricanes is a must for our survival? Why didnt God designed the earth better for our survival?People killing hurricanes(and earth quakes) are not really necessary. Why did god created the world this way? this would tell us that the earth is not "intelligently designed".

How about down syndrome? Autism? Rape? What good can one get out of these? Please enlighten us

in your staement, you're arguing na God could've made a "more" perfect world? na sufferings and evil could've been banished entirely? there goes the problem, without these sufferings, hindi natin madidifferentiate ang little at great suffering.. sige nga, for a person who has never experienced pain, how could you describe a pin prick? or the death of his whole family?

Please read the above quoted quotes and the previous replies. You said that one can get good out of evil and sufferings, then I asked you what could one get out of them.

What good can a rape victim get? or an autistic get?

I never said that evil and suffering should be banished entirely by your god. I was simply questioning the absence of your so called loving and omnipotent God in these times. I never heard or saw an event where in your loving and omnipotent God helped in that kind of event or situation.

no, that's what you're stating, na with an Omniscient and Omnipresent God, no one should suffer, no one should die..

Oh yeah? Can you quote me on that? Did I really say that? I remember that I even acknowledged that they are inevitible.

hough Adam's sinful act is not the responsibility of his descendants, the state of human nature that has resulted from that sinful act has consequences that plague them: "Human nature, without being entirely corrupted, has been harmed in its natural powers, is subject to ignorance, suffering and the power of death, and has a tendency to sin. This tendency is called concupiscence" (Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, 77), but is distinct from original sin itself, since it remains even when original sin is remitted.

Then it is free will then and not the original sin. Right? And this does not solve the non-man made sufferings.

simply because we use our common sense.. do you really think na Christians are so naive as to think every opportunist as the Son of God or as being possesed by God's spirit? preposterous..

Common sense?! Your basis is that book full of errors and contradictions and you call that common sense?

 

[Pearlista]

@pinoy_radical
Walang patutunguhan tong usapan na'to.. Tanungin mo na lang ulit ako kapag bukas na ang isipan mo na makinig sa iba..

 

[Lovely Face]

mahirap yang tanonng mo @threadstarter..its thought provoking wika nga...pero siyempre since siya ang maylikha..siya rn ang maaring tumapos nito di ba? pero ang utos niya sa ating mga tao ay masama ang pumatay ng kapwa. yan ang alam kong masama.