No to bbl! Justice for saf!

[macedonian]

isa lang naman ang tama!
sunding ang constitution tapos ang usapan!

what constitution?? the one hurriedly made?? do i need to make a point, it was created in 1987, less a year after edsa.... all of us know, that it was Vague, Biased, outdated and conveniently railroaded to legitimize the seat of a revolutionary president.

i am amenable to the statement... but with all the talks of constitutionality etc etc... who among Filipinos are well versed of the constitution? much less understand the basic concepts stated therein?

 

[Operation Valkyrie]

i understand thread starter the pain, anger and loss. Human factor after all.Hindi mo ma blame ang rebels sa bundok, kasi mga walang pinag-aralan yan.they are opportunistic and will use all treacherous means to fight, kaya nga nagka overkill, simply termed it as pang traydor siguro kasi malapit sa enclave nila si muhandis.

But that is war ts.pinasukan mo ang trabaho bilang isang taga pagtanggol ng bayan at may risk talaga yan, hindi mo sasabihin sa bala sino ang puede at hindi tamaan.
Kasalanan pa rin ng command, kasi hindi magka ganyan ang horrrendous loss mo if you studied and prepared well for the battle.

Cge, war ang gusto mo ts diba??Sige ubusin natin ang mga muslim kasi yan ang gusto mo. So logical tayo, the rebels have no match for the governement both tactically and strategically. They don't have economy,endurance,resources,salaries and even the most competent hardware...(wag kang mag-alala sa FERFRANS rifle na cebu based na nakuha ng mga rebelde, yung mga NVG, Negev light MG and destroyed returned FNs) wala sila sweldo, do you think a man can pursue or survive a gun battle,sleepless nights and empty stomach sa relentless pursuit, NO! kalabaw at pagbubukid ang hanap buhay ng mga iyan, kaya nga may mga matalinong foreign fighter na kumbaga consultant nila.

So, pulbos na sila lahat,halimbawa a handful of your so called muslim rebels na lang ang natira, kaya ng makipag suntukan natin dahil wala ng silang bala.
But still TS you cannot stop a man from his determination, no matter how handicapped, no matter how unarmed, no matter how helpless a cause he can be, the determination of a man cannot be stomped out by your firepower.

Diba si rizal,aklat at tinta lang ang hawak niya, tingnan mo? Bakit siya ang nagiging national hero. Even if you annihilate them in our country, a few years or several years from now, may individual pa rin na lalabas at mag voice out sa determination niya no matter how unarmed he is. Even if papatayin mo siya, sooner or later meron pa din tao na naka intindi sa sinasapit niya at mag rally, voice out or magsulat para sa determination. sige TS, tanaggalin ko na lang ang "armed struggle" para hindi ka mag ala-la na meron armas ang mag strive sa sabi kung determination para hindi ka uusok at magagalit. halimbawa ikaw ang may hawak ng mini-gun,M4 etc at placard lang ang hawak ng mga muslim sa pagkikibaka. Still, a somebody will air out or voice out his concern despite may baril ka sa harap nila......

I mean you should understand what im trying to point out. Alam ko TS civilian ka kasi the kind of argument and heavy-handed words you are ranting here.

Sa opinion ko lang sa BBL, pareha lang yan sa christian dominated areas. If you allow Nepotism and political dynasty, talagang kawawa pa rin ang mga tao diyan.if you allow political violence and culture of warlordism, goons,private armies....walang aasenso. all laws were built for betterment but depending whose leadership or hands it was ably complied. But if that leadership will just stock up arms for several years and plan to invade the whole mindanao in the long run, then perhaps it was insidiously crafted and worthy not to become a law. If in the long run ganyan. Nasa leadership kasi yan.

please respect my post

 

[johnjames]

lahat ng commento nyo..maganda at hindi..pero nirespeto k ksi gnon ang inyong pananaw..pero para sa akin hwag dapat ipasa ang bbl na yan..para kasing natatakot ang gobyerno dyan sa mindanao kung isipin lng natin ng mabuti ganon parin ang mangyayari riyan dapat pursigihin na ubusin cla..dapat isang gobyerno lng..para lahat pantay pantay...

 

[Temujin]

lahat ng commento nyo..maganda at hindi..pero nirespeto k ksi gnon ang inyong pananaw..pero para sa akin hwag dapat ipasa ang bbl na yan..para kasing natatakot ang gobyerno dyan sa mindanao kung isipin lng natin ng mabuti ganon parin ang mangyayari riyan dapat pursigihin na ubusin cla..dapat isang gobyerno lng..para lahat pantay pantay...

->Ilan beses n bang sinubokan ng pamahalin na ubusin ang MORO? Anu ang nangyari? Kailan ba nag-pantay ang MORO sa PILIPINO? Kapag muslim ang naagrabyado walang hustisya. Marami ng dumaan na karahasan sa Moro peru walang nangyari. Siguro may karapatin din kami mag-sarili.

 

[macedonian]

yun iba dito di naman ignorant kundi deliberately ignoring history...

our government was the gift of our american colonial masters... kahit balibaliktarin mo..
we subjected ourselves to americans and spaniards... kahit sabihin pa natin na napilitan na lang

pag sinabi kong ourselves... we the natives of luzon and visayas....

never was mindanao subjected to any foreign rule...
so how will they be part of any territory... their land was theirs...

so where did our government got its legitimacy to lay claim to something that wasn't part of the territory of its former masters??
dahil daw geography yan sabi ng iba...

eh kung ganun pala yun lupa ng kapitbahay ko sa pasay eh kunin ko na rin, geographically collocated naman eh.

pish.... minsan ang common sense para di mapansin sinasalansang ng kung ano anong propaganda...

kesyo promised land, kesyo pilipino lahat, kesyo iisang lahi...

sige nga kayo malagay sa lugar nila... di ka lumuhod sa mga banyaga... tapos darating kakulay mo at kabayan mo at sasabihin sa amin ka na lumuhod kasi wala na ang mga banyaga... kami na ang in charge...

 

[cotxdx]

Kapag inagaw ng iba ang lupang tinitirhan mo, magkikibit-balikat ka na lang ba at magmumukmok sa isang sulok? Syempre hindi! Ipaglalaban mo yun hindi ba? Yan ang history ng Mindanao at Palestine in a nutshell. Hindi mo masisisi ang mga Moro kung bakit ganun sila kabrutal sa kanilang mga kalaban. Ganun na kasi ang kultura nila.

Syempre lahat ng mga pinoy gusto ng hustisya para sa saf 44. Pero gusto rin ng mga kababayan nating Muslim na maipasa ang BBL. Yun na lang kasi ang nakikita nilang solusyon para sa problema sa Mindanao. Hindi natin sila masisisi. Halos 100 taon na nating inaagaw ang lupang tinitirhan nila at ng mga ninuno nila.

 

[zyx5r]

"There will be no true peace while evil people and system exist..."

+1

Ang isyu sa iilan nating kababayan (ka-symb) ay kulang sa impormasyon pagdating sa kasaysayan ng pilipinas.
Gayundin, ang saligang batas natin ay totoong outdated.
Ang hidwaan tungkol sa pag-sasabatas (o hindi) ng BBL ay bunga lamang ng salitang "sympathy" ng madla.

Ako din ay hindi sang-ayon sa pagpasa ng BBL sa ngayon, hindi din ako sang-ayon pa i-nuke ang Mindanao dahil walang sapat ng pera ang Gobyerno.
Dahil kung ganun lang ang tanging paraan para matigil ang hidwaan, para na din akong pulitiko mag-isip.

Bakit nun panahon ni Marcos, maganda ang estado ng edukasyon...
Nun natapos na ang termino nia, bumaba ang kalidad sa pag-aaral.... Chain Effect lang ito

 

[Operation Valkyrie]

This should be an objective forum discussing tech and other information. This should not be pool for brewing arguments. kasi this is a sensitive topic. We should refrain from discussing political and religious based discussions. Kung sana...

Tanong ko lang sa mundo, bakit pag inu-umpisahan ng ma-anghang na pananalita ay babawi rin sa kabila ng matalas na minsan below the belt presentation of arguments.

Ayo ko rin ng giyera at gulo, ibig ba sabihin doon ako ay isang duwag sa mundo at hindi dapat maasahan sa larangan ng labanan?

Ma tanong ko rin sa mga tao, bakit pawang mga ordinariong tao at civilian ang matapang na magsalita sa paumpisa uli at pagsiklab uli ng gulo, mga taong hindi sanay at walang ka-alamalam sa paghawak ng mga delikadong bagay katulad ng baril o may sapat na kaalaman sa pakipagdigmaan. yung professional ang tinutukoy ko at hindi basta-bastang grupo lang..

Hindi naman kasi katulad ng video game ang giyera.manood nga ng documentary sa mga playing safe, ihambing mo nga, parang malayo lang yata ang tunay na nangyayari sa laro na Modern warfare at iba pang games.( ang Ganda ng GRAPHICS ano, nakapagmaneho ka pa ng tangke, ang galing weekend warrior) parang meron yata matamaan na hayop kasali diyan. Tingnan mo nga yung mga kalabaw, ang iba swerte napilayan lang, pero hindi na mapakinabangan sa pag-aaro sa bukid. Yung iba patay talaga at nangangamoy na.

Nakakatawa ba talaga sa inyo yung nakita niyo sa television na may parang kuliglig na kinakarga ang mga hayop katulad ng kambing,baboy,manok at aso??? Eh tao pa kaya hindi kusang aalis at natatakot na maipit sa gulo??

 

[macedonian]

more point... ang isang unit army requires at least 600k in equippage and salary annually
an operational expense budget of 4M
this is in the context of the present security situation

so more or less that's almost 5M a year for just one unit... that's just the army.. and that's almost 80 to 90 units all over the philippines

a mechanized unit has to have more, specialized units even more,

make the navy and airforce 3x than what your army has?? and try to compute how much taxpayers money is going on a a drainpipe

instead of being invested in the education of future leaders, business leaders, workforce,
instead of being in vested in infrastructures where there is a clear return of investment
instead of investing on more projects to alleviate the poverty

pakicompute nagagstos ng gobyerno na pera na mas karapatdapat mabalik sa taumbayan in services..
at imultiply mo ito sa 10X kung maglaunch ng giyera sa sarili mong lupa
na sigurado ay lalayasan ng nagpapsahod sa mga karamihang dito ay naghahanapbuhay
at pagtigil ng produksyon

para lang ipagpilitan sa mga moro na lumuhod sa atin??


tanong ko sa mga iba pang magbabasa nito, kung nasaan ang ROI dyan.

 

[Temujin]

->Ang iba s pag-ayaw lang ang alam. Hindi naman alam ang inaayawan.

 

[zyx5r]

more point... ang isang unit army requires at least 600k in equippage and salary annually
an operational expense budget of 4M
this is in the context of the present security situation

so more or less that's almost 5M a year for just one unit... that's just the army.. and that's almost 80 to 90 units all over the philippines

a mechanized unit has to have more, specialized units even more,

make the navy and airforce 3x than what your army has?? and try to compute how much taxpayers money is going on a a drainpipe

instead of being invested in the education of future leaders, business leaders, workforce,
instead of being in vested in infrastructures where there is a clear return of investment
instead of investing on more projects to alleviate the poverty

pakicompute nagagstos ng gobyerno na pera na mas karapatdapat mabalik sa taumbayan in services..
at imultiply mo ito sa 10X kung maglaunch ng giyera sa sarili mong lupa
na sigurado ay lalayasan ng nagpapsahod sa mga karamihang dito ay naghahanapbuhay
at pagtigil ng produksyon

para lang ipagpilitan sa mga moro na lumuhod sa atin??


tanong ko sa mga iba pang magbabasa nito, kung nasaan ang ROI dyan.

yun pa ang pasakit sa taung bayan na hindi sapat ang kaalaman tungkol tunay na isyung umiikot sa sistema ng lipunan natin. Kahit ganu kaganda ang reporma na ipinatutupad ng nakaupo, kung ang mga galamay nito ay puro korupsyon ang ipinatutupad, walang saysay ang mga plataporma.

Isang magandang halimbawa nito ay korapsyon mismo sa militar, may giyera man o wala, tumatakbo ang pondo para dun. Para dumoble ang kita, ibebenta sa kabilang grupo.

Sapat na sa may "may tsapa o ranggo" ang pagbuwis ng iilang buhay para lang sa dobleng kita.

para sa sagot sa tanong mo, Meron naman kaso sa maling kamay at maling pamamaraan napupunta ang ROI

 

[Simpleforummer]

@Kieto

The evil people are those who use religion as an excuse to kill innocent people such as terrorist group saan mang lupalop ng mundo.

by passing the BBL without consultation to majority its like inaalisin mo ng hustisya ang mga namatay na SAF44 para sa bayan.

di pa man napapatunayan na trustworthy ang tutulungan go na agad? di pa man tapos ang investigation BBL na agad?

 

[Operation Valkyrie]

@Kieto

The evil people are those who use religion as an excuse to kill innocent people such as terrorist group saan mang lupalop ng mundo.

by passing the BBL without consultation to majority its like inaalisin mo ng hustisya ang mga namatay na SAF44 para sa bayan.

di pa man napapatunayan na trustworthy ang tutulungan go na agad? di pa man tapos ang investigation BBL na agad?

Teutonic knights, Hospitaliers and your avatar, the knights templar fought and use religion to wage war-the crusades.Do you really think they all killed non-innocent people?The jews used to be the first terrorist, the muslims copied the design, remember the stern gang and irgun who bombed king david hotel,wala pang muslim suicide bomber at bin laden, not even ilich ramirez existed.And TS, I am also christian.And if evil alone is constricted to the use of a certain creed, does that mean the Nazis were not wrong because they never used faith in the extermination of the jewish people?

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter sabi nga nila, kaya vague ang meaning ng word terrorist except the word terrorism, you can ask the US state what are the scopes and limitations as to what the word terrorist implies. Maraming tao gumagamit ng faith para sa isang cause na masama, nagkataon lang na ang ISlamic Fundamentalism ang trend sa panahon natin.Are you aware of all the list of all organizations dubbed by the US State department as terror groups?The NPA is in the list,FARC is on the list, Kahane Chai, former Tamil Tigers of eealam and new IRA. I dont hear them crying faith as a source of their inspiration to commit such.


Gusto rin ako ng hustisya sa mga napatay, on the government may dapat pananagutin at maging sa MILF/BIFF din. Lahat naman tayo ah. Pero sa sabi ko na that is war, it happens everywhere, summary executions happen worldwide, the only case is they filmed the incident, that is evident enough na nag overkill sila

Yes, kailangan may proper consultation, sa nangyayari sa mamasapano siguro naman na aware na lahat ng tao dito sa BBL, na open na ang mga mata sa lahat ng aspeto kung saan ang patungo nito at hindi pa naman ito tapos kasi may nangyari na mayroon ng makisawsaw kung ano mang layunin nila

In my opinion, ang results ng BOI ay limited lamang. Malamang ito ay hindi para sa mga civilian and ordinary people, that was a covert ops remember and such operation is not for the knowledge of the common people kasi sensitive ang matters of state security ang nakasalalay dito, that is my opinion only.We all cry justice, we all cry na pantay lahat.

thanks ts

 

[eevyaj_23]

View attachment 206807

para tayong Korea nyan pag natupad ang BBL na yan...
NORTH and SOUTH

 

[madvirus1300]

kung maaprobahan ba ang BBL na to.. talaga bang magkakaron ng tunay na katahimikan sa Mindanao?

Aalalahanin niyo.. MILF ito.. hindi nila makontrol mga tao nila. ilan beses na rin ito nakapatay ng mga sundalo at pulis habang may CEASEFIRE ang dalawang panig. (gobyerno at MILF)

Kung sersyoso sila sa ikatatahimik ng Mindanao. bat di nila ibaba mga armas nila?
Mag balik loob sila sa Gobyerno ng walang kondisyon. hindi yung sila pa yung may karapatan magdikta kung ano gusto nila.

at isa pa.

Kontrolado ba talaga nila mga tao o myembro nila?
Saan ba sila talaga Loyal? Sa Malaysia o sa Pinas.
Kasi sa pagkakaalam ko.. hindi nila kinikilala sarili nila bilang isang Filipino.. BANGSAMORO tawag nila sa kanilang sarili.

Pag maipasa yan.. Good luck nalang sa Pilipinas.
Baka mapareho tayo sa Israel.
mas lalo nilang pinalakas pwersa ng Hamas.. ngayon.. hirap silang pigilan ang mga to.
Pano pa kaya tayong kulang pa sa kagamitan mga kasundalohan natin.

Alalahanin niyo rin.. na traydor ang Grupong to.
Ilan Ceasefire na nga ba ang na-binale wala ng teroristang grupong to?

yun ay kung alam niyo. -_-

 

[Simpleforummer]

@Valkyrie

We should believe on many things para i generalize ang isang bansa such as conspiracies or pagkakamali ng iilan inside our outside the Israel circle.

Hitler killed many jews as jews or Israel is the chosen nation or people of God and that will never change...

God use Christians and the west allies to protect this nation and to support it as God said.

God bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse it as a whole.

And one more thing fundamental Christianity or evangelicalism is different to extremist terrorist or jihadist that kill for their religion.

this is spiritual battle between good and evil so those who are on God side are on Israel side such as evangelicals and republicans or the democratic west and europe as a whole.

- - - Updated - - -

Speaking of the nation of Israel, Deuteronomy 7:7-9 tells us, “The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your forefathers that He brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; He is the faithful God, keeping His covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love Him and keep His commands.”

God chose the nation of Israel to be the people through whom Jesus Christ would be born—the Savior from sin and death (John 3:16). God first promised the Messiah after Adam and Eve’s fall into sin (Genesis chapter 3). God later confirmed that the Messiah would come from the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Genesis 12:1-3). Jesus Christ is the ultimate reason why God chose Israel to be His special people. God did not need to have a chosen people, but He decided to do it that way. Jesus had to come from some nation of people, and God chose Israel.

However, God’s reason for choosing the nation of Israel was not solely for the purpose of producing the Messiah. God’s desire for Israel was that they would go and teach others about Him. Israel was to be a nation of priests, prophets, and missionaries to the world. God’s intent was for Israel to be a distinct people, a nation who pointed others towards God and His promised provision of a Redeemer, Messiah, and Savior. For the most part, Israel failed in this task. However, God’s ultimate purpose for Israel—that of bringing the Messiah into the world—was fulfilled perfectly in the Person of Jesus Christ.


Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/why-God-choose-Israel.html#ixzz3U3v4L7xp

 

[Operation Valkyrie]

This thread is a mediocre and paradox!!!........close mo na ito TS!

 

[macedonian]

I second the motion.... btw bigyan lang si TS ng pangsinghot mukhang nabitin ng rugby

 

[jeberns12]

@Kieto

The evil people are those who use religion as an excuse to kill innocent people such as terrorist group saan mang lupalop ng mundo.

by passing the BBL without consultation to majority its like inaalisin mo ng hustisya ang mga namatay na SAF44 para sa bayan.

di pa man napapatunayan na trustworthy ang tutulungan go na agad? di pa man tapos ang investigation BBL na agad?

Tama! And for sure, ang mga may gusto sa BBL ay mga muslims lang. Correct me If I'm wrong.

Kahit tingnan pa natin, laking galit ni Ishmael at selos kasi sya daw ang panganay na anak ni Abraham, kung tutuusin, anak nga sya pero hindi sa kagustuhan ng Dios. Dahil nung gabi na yun, Sarah (wife of Abraham) let Hagar to sleep with Abraham because she worried na baka di na sila magkaanak dahil matanda na sila. Actually may plan na si God na magkaroon sila ng anak kaso nawalan ng tiwala si Sarah. Kung tutuusin, di naman nagkulang ang Dios, tinupad pa din nya pangako nya na magkaroon ng maraming decendants ang mga muslims. Pero, di sana sila masyadong mangankin ng lugar :P

 

[macedonian]

quick to judge quick to make a statement wala naman kayong ginawang investigation... ang BBL na sinasabi nyo was not crafted lately as you believe...

after pagbagsak ni ERAP, the GRP panel and the MILF entered a ceasefire... and the peace talks resumed... in 2007 nafinalize ang draft for the peace agreement..

the draft of the BBL was on its way then... pero may problema, it is in conflict with the constitution, and since total resolution and reunification ng conflict ang gusto ng leadership that time... hiningi nila sa MILF that the agreement will first have to be a law. and since it was in conflict with the constitution. changes have to be made first..

kaya noon lumabas ang balita ng cha-cha, at di pa man umaabot sa senate ito pinatay na ito ng mga nasa congress dahil kuno public clamor... but the constitution convention was proposed to establish a parliamentary governemnt na pwedeng mahouse ang isang Bangsamoro state. at mas pinapalakas pa ang powers ng national government.

at dahil nga di na umabot sa issang plebiscite ang con-con, walang madala ang grp negotiators sa negotiating table... nag-walk out ang international monitoring teams. at pumutok ang kauswagan lanao norte attack ni bravo on 2008 just when the ceasefire was lifted.

THE GOVERNMENT THEN ACKNOWLEDGE THE INJUSTICE DONE DURING THE 50s whre the government na mismo ang nangamkam ng lupain ng mindanao, declarin g it part of philippine territory when it never was. declaring all its land public. without considering that the people there had their own sovereignty untainted by any colonial rule...

kaya ang BBL ngayon was not really HIS legacy. sinakyan nya lang ito from previous administration and was haphazardly being implemented or renamed....

pero para sa inyong mga taga-luzon na walang alam sa storya ng mindanao, just shut up dahil isa kayo sa nakikinabang sa yaman ng mindanao... I am from luzon myself, and I am aware that we have no place to place mindanao under our own government from the start..

ang mga ninuno natin sinuko ang kanilang kasarinlan sa mga kastila at lalo ng lumuhod sa mga kano... pero ang mga mindanaoans ay hindi... wala tayong karapatan angkinin ang di naman naging bahagi ng teritoryong minana lang natin sa mga amo nating kano ang kanilang lupain...

ITS NOT A RELIGION YOU ARROGANT PRICKS. it is their homeland, we invaded it. if your christian values say that it is alright to invade and steal someone else's property, in the name and justification that christianity is the only religion, then that is your Jesus christ but not the Jesus I was brought up.

but still you can have your way, ensure the politicians who share your views on an all out war wins this coming election... in this manner, you can wipe out all muslims in the name of your lord. and you won't fail because the seat of power of the government is in luzon, and the power majority resides from politicians of luzon.

because i think this country let's you exercise your belief, so if it is within your conviction that the only religion in this country and the world is christianity, and that gives you the justification to go on a bloody rampage on account of christians for the whole world... that is your right as a human being...

but i think too that the same right is given to them, since they are still considered citizens of this country. if not, then we should not be having peace talks in the first place.