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do you believe in purgatory??

...kasi literally interpreting the verse you gave, you're stating predestination and sola fide..

Now this statement of yours clearly states that you are not fully sold out to the teaching of the Holy Bible. Matatapos ang usaping ito by just simply admitting that you do not fully believe in the Holy Scriptures. Eh kasi talaga namang walang 'Purgatory' sa Bible eh. At kung isasagot mo na naman na yung salitang 'Bible' nga eh wala din, just say na hindi ka naniniwala sa Bible. As simple as that my friend so that we can all settle down on the issue at hand.
 
:thumbsup: para sayo kurungkoy! :approve: ganyan talaga si pearlista, lumilihis sa landas... :peace:
 
dapat talaga hindi na ako sasagot pero pakiexplain kung anong ibig sabihin nito:
ganyan talaga si pearlista, lumilihis sa landas...
considering na kayo nung 1054 AD at 1517 AD ang unang lumihis ng landas..
kung word na bible wala ka talagang mababasang ganon pero tama sinabi ni skywalker na ang bible ay pinagsama'samang aklat kaya nabuo ang salitang bible.
the origin of the word Bible:
According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, the word bible[4] is from Latin biblia, traced from the same word through Medieval Latin and Late Latin, as used in the phrase biblia sacra ("holy book" - "In the Latin of the Middle Ages, the neuter plural for Biblia (gen. bibliorum) gradually came to be regarded as a feminine singular noun (biblia, gen. bibliae, in which singular form the word has passed into the languages of the Western world.").[5]
ibig sabihin, kapag titingnan in your point of view, the word Bible is also an invention kasi wala ito sa "bible", and since nung Middle Ages nauso ang term na 'biblia' hence long before the Reformation, it is safe to assume na ang salitang Bible ay isa ring "Catholic invention"? pakilinaw lang po
kahit si jose rizal hindi naniniwalang may purgatoryo eh.. marami kasi imbento ang katoliko sunod lang naman ng sunod mga miyembro pinagtatangol pa eh mali na nga... hindi valid reason yung may diwa or thoughts ang bible regarding purgatory kaya may purgatory na.. sabi sa bible "hwag lalampas sa nasusulat"

"ang tao ay hahatulan ayon sa mga bagay na ginawa nya nung sya'y buhay pa" ganyan ang nasa bible pero sa katoliko ganito "ang tao ay hahatulan ayon sa pagkakalinis nya sa purgatoryo at kung paano sya ipinagdasal ng mga tao" magkakontra di ba btw atheist po ako ha
what a gross display of ignorance, talagang hindi maniniwala si Rizal diyan dahil atheista yun eh.. eto ang last words daw niya nung pinatay siya: 'Adiós', I go where there are no slaves, no hangmen or oppressors, where faith does not kill...
Wala naman talaga. Manapa ito ang nakalagay..

"Anomang masumpungang gawain ng iyong kamay, gawin mo ng iyong kapangyarihan; sapagka't walang gawa, ni katha man, ni kaalaman man, ni karunungan man, sa Sheol, na iyong pinaparunan." (Ecclesiastes 9:10).

pag patay ka na, wala ka ng magagawa, ni kaalaman at karunungan man. Kahit ipagtirik ka pa ng ga Posteng Kandila, para ipagdasala ka. Wala na ding silbi..

Dahil ang tao, hahatulan sa kanyang mga gawa ng buhay pa. Hindi ka naman hahatulan dahil sa gawa ng iba.
disprove this then:
In the Old Testament

The first mention of Purgatory in the Bible is in 2 Maccabees 12:46: "Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from sin."

Granted 2 Maccabees may not be in Protestant Bibles, but even if it cannot be used doctrinally then it at least has to have some historical worth. In it we can see what the pre-Christian community believed.

In Chapter 12 we can see Scriptural proof for Purgatory and evidence that the Jews had sacrifices offered for those of their brothers who had lost their lives in battle. That the Jews prayed for the dead shows that they believed in a place where they could be helped (now called Purgatory) and that the prayers of their living brothers and sisters could help them in that place.

These words in the book of Maccabees had so clearly favored the Catholic custom, that the whole book was removed from the Protestant Bible. Unfortunately for them, even if the book was not inspired, it still tells us of the practice of God's chosen people.
In the New Testament

In Matthew 5:26 Christ is condemning sin and speaks of liberation only after expiation. "Amen, I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid the last penny." Now we know that no last penny needs to be paid in Heaven and from Hell there is no liberation at all; hence the reference must apply to a third place.

Matthew 12:32 says, "And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

The same person as in the previously mentioned verse, Matthew, speaks of sin against the Holy Spirit. The implication is that some sins can be forgiven in the world to come. But not in Hell from which there is no liberation; nor in Heaven because nothing imperfect can enter it as we see in the next part. Any remission of sin cannot occur in either of these places because they are a final destination unlike purgatory.

Revelation 21:27: "...but nothing unclean will enter it, nor anyone who does abominable things or tells lies." The place that is to be entered (the place to which this passage refers) is heaven (read the stuff around it for context).

The Bible clearly implies a place for temporary punishment after we die in the many passages which tell that God will reward or punish according to man's works.
What if purgatory really doesn't exist?

Say that there is no such thing as purgatory. What becomes of us? The Bible declares that nothing impurified can enter Heaven, but yet a careless word can defile the soul (Matthew 12:36); if there is no place of temporary punishment, the one guilty would be damned to Hell!

Who would be saved? Those who teach against purgatory teach an unreasonable doctrine.

So, why do non-Catholics reject a teaching so full of consolation? My guess is that they want to believe that the merits of Christ applied to the sinner who trusts in Him, will remove all sin; hence the believer will go at once to Heaven (also known as the belief called Sola Fide or faith alone).

Nowhere in the Bible does it say faith alone. This is un-Scriptural, since Christ tells us that to enter into life we must keep the commandments, hear the Church, do the will of His Father and much more with faith. Yes, actions plus faith.
in answer to this one:
Now this statement of yours clearly states that you are not fully sold out to the teaching of the Holy Bible. Matatapos ang usaping ito by just simply admitting that you do not fully believe in the Holy Scriptures. Eh kasi talaga namang walang 'Purgatory' sa Bible eh. At kung isasagot mo na naman na yung salitang 'Bible' nga eh wala din, just say na hindi ka naniniwala sa Bible. As simple as that my friend so that we can all settle down on the issue at hand.
I will once again state na hindi ako debotong Katoliko, but I believe in the Bible.. I do not believe sa sola scriptura, sola fide, sola gratia, solus Christus and soli deo gloria or the lies presented by Martin Luther.. what's the use of being Catholic kung hindi naman ako naniniwala sa Bible? common sense.. tsk tsk.. We, Catholics believe in the Apostolic Tradition sa paginterpret sa Bible and not literally. at kaming mga Katoliko ay hindi naniniwala sa mga bigla biglang nagsulputang "speakers of half-truths" na walang ginawa kundi siraan ang simbahan maka-attract lang ng mga tagasunod..

and I don't expect na mareresolve pa itong topic na'to, almost 500 years nang pinagtatalunan to since the Reformation pero hanggang ngayon hindi pa rin tinatanggap na nung 1517 nagkamali si Martin Luther..
 
yes....

i believe when a person dies the soul goes to this place (purgatory)

and stays there for forty days ata before going to heaven or hell...
 
catholism cannot leave that belief...
kasi nga salvation made so easy...
wala ng sola fide saka good work ...
sa purgatory pwede na...
Jesus is the Way....the only Way....:)
 
Jesus is the only way, the only means of salvation. The principles of purgatory is clear- "that you can be saved by other ways"! Which will make Jesus and the apostles liars kung meron ngang purgatory.

You must choose if san ka magrerely, sa Bible o sa Tradition. Take note po, dapat ang tradition eh certified ng Bible. Pag tradition eh against sa turo ng Bible, judge for your self. Common sense!
 
Jesus is the only way, the only means of salvation. The principles of purgatory is clear- "that you can be saved by other ways"! Which will make Jesus and the apostles liars kung meron ngang purgatory.

You must choose if san ka magrerely, sa Bible o sa Tradition. Take note po, dapat ang tradition eh certified ng Bible. Pag tradition eh against sa turo ng Bible, judge for your self. Common sense!
sola scriptura or bible alone is a protestant belief..
Christian teaching, then and from then on, is contained in a twin
source: sacred oral tradition, as from the Day of Pentecost, and
written tradition or Scripture. In 2nd Thessalonians 2:14, Paul says
to his converts: "(God) has called you through our GOSPEL." In verse
15, he identifies his GOSPEL: it is "the traditions that you were
taught". He then distinguishes those traditions as both oral and
written: "either by an oral statement or by an epistle of ours."
and finally:
To ask for a "bible verse" to "prove" any Christian doctrine is to
fall into the SOLA SCRIPTURA trap. Christians should not operate
that way. Catholic Christians never do, because we know that we are
"the household of God, the Church of the living God, the pillar and
foundation of truth (1st Timothy 3:15). The Church was the matrix of
New Testament scripture, which was written by her earliest bishops
under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The Church uses the New
Testament and the oral tradition as teaching tools. Scripture is
indeed "inspired by God and useful for teaching, refutation,
correction, and training in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16). But if
Scripture is misused, apart from the Church which Christ founded to
teach us, Scripture becomes "hard to understand, so that the ignorant
and unstable distort it to their own destruction" (2nd Peter 3:16).
SATISFIED?
 
hindi ako naniniwala dyan,

stay ka muna sa earth ng 40 days bilang kaluluwa bago pumunta sa langit
 
sola scriptura or bible alone is a protestant belief..

and finally:

SATISFIED?

Excuse me pero, ang tradition mong sinasabi, sabihin nating valid(so hindi ako nag-i-stick sa sola scriptura), eh dapat HINDI CONTRADICTING sa sinasabi ng Scripture. Hindi pwedeng magsama ang postive at negative.

Ibig sabihin your tradition is correct and the Bible is the liar? :rofl:

kapatid, isp-isipin mo. I do not question any tradition as long as hindi ito contradicting sa Bible, which is we all know that is the Word of God.

Every intelligent Christian should know that principle, common sense is the minimal requirement.:salute:
 
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Excuse me pero, ang tradition mong sinasabi, sabihin nating valid(so hindi ako nag-i-stick sa sola scriptura), eh dapat HINDI CONTRADICTING sa sinasabi ng Scripture. Hindi pwedeng magsama ang postive at negative.

Ibig sabihin your tradition is correct and the Bible is the liar? :rofl:

kapatid, isp-isipin mo. I do not question any tradition as long as hindi ito contradicting sa Bible, which is we all know that is the Word of God.

Every intelligent Christian should know that principle, common sense is the minimal requirement.:salute:

-*- Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church does not contradict the Bible.. Give an example para magkalaman yung argument mo..
In your statements, clear na naniniwala ka sa Sola Scriptura, which by the way is one of Martin Luther's teachings, kaya naturally as a Catholic I DONT BELIEVE IN IT..
 
sapat na nga na "test" ang mabuhay sa mundo. di ko rin mapaniwalaan ang purgatoryo(anu, para macompensate mo yung mga nagawa mong kasalanan nung nabubuhay ka pa?), pero nakasaad ata sya sa bibliya...pati sa mga prayers na sinasambit maging ng simbahang katoliko. no one can go agains't it, cuz we can't accept it as a fact...but as a belief.
 
imbento lang po ang PORGATORY... si JOSE RIZAL hindi naniniwala diyan....

para kunwari kung mamatay ka... makasalanan ka... keme.. kailangan kang ipag dasal para maiahon ka sa PORGATORY...

keme lang yun... :lol:

alam mo kung bakit?? pag nagpa misa ka... ano gagawin mo??? eh di magbabayad ka sa magdadasal sa namatay...

business lang yan...

para KEME... maalis yun namatay sa PORGATORY... :lol:

Colossians 2:8 Kayo'y magsipagingat, baka sa inyo'y may bumihag sa pamamagitan ng kaniyang pilosopia at walang kabuluhang pagdaraya, ayon sa sali't saling sabi ng mga tao, ayon sa mga pasimulang aral ng sanglibutan, at di ayon kay Cristo:
 
so, matagal na tayung bulag sa ka22hanan...na ginugoyo tayu ng simbahan. (ayuku sanang magpadala sa sabi ng iba, pero parang napapaniwala na ko.)...pag-aaralan ko na lang yan para walang confusion.
 
yan ang mabuti.. pag aralan dapat....

1 John 4:1 My loved ones, do not put your faith in every spirit, but put them to the test, to see if they are from God: because a great number of false prophets have gone out into the world.

daming BULAAN ngayon,,, sa ARAL magkakatalo-talo, kung yung binabasa ng pastor eh nakasulat...

Revelation 22:18 For I say to every man to whose ears have come the words of this prophet's book, If any man makes an addition to them, God will put on him the punishments which are in this book:

Revelation 22:19 And if any man takes away from the words of this book, God will take away from him his part in the tree of life and the holy town, even the things which are in this book.
 
-*- Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church does not contradict the Bible.. Give an example para magkalaman yung argument mo..
In your statements, clear na naniniwala ka sa Sola Scriptura, which by the way is one of Martin Luther's teachings, kaya naturally as a Catholic I DONT BELIEVE IN IT..

Ok, try to consider this.

Kapag may purgatoryo, isa lang principle na lalabas- "hindi sapat ang ginawang kamatayan ni Cristo sa krus para bayaran kasalanan mo, at maligtas ka. Bagkus, kelangan kang ipagdasal para ma-elevate patungo sa langit."

Hebrews 9:27(NASB)
"And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,"


Hindi nga against ano po?:salute:
 
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