> Bro its says that the Logos was with God, not TOWARD the God.
Have you ask a native Greek speaker regarding the meaning of logos? Actually upon researching below can be use to translate logos in english language
- to the advantage of
- at, near, by
- to, towards, with, with regard to
See?! probably there is a wide range of how the translator can translate the word logos in greek to english which agrees with the belief of who wrote
John 1:1 which is not a native greek speaker thus when it seems right it seems right to him but not aware if it is in perfect harmony along with the other word of God, now you are gonna say how absurd it is but here`s the thing, to know the truth you must based it all in the light of the whole word of God not just chapters , verses but it should be in perfect harmony not contradicting , now if it seems contradicting then probably the translations is at fault. What I think is KJV is biased in trinity but still I am using KJV translation although I don`t believe in trinity anymore but because it doesn`t matter as long as I know it won`t contradict other word of God.
Yes you can use the translation WITH because it conforms into your denomination doctrines but I for one did not based on the teachings of men or tradition of men, try to leave what your denomination teaches you and read again the bible prayerfully seeking the truth and nothing but the truth so help us God.
So are you also saying that the Word/Logos was different from John 1:1 to John 1:14?
Yes,it is different , I have already answered that using puchoy`s explanation and it seems you won`t accept it because you are clinging to what your denomination has taught you.
Then rofin, let me ask this. Who is the Logos in John 1:14?
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
> Those underline words, please explain it.
That is why you are in error because you conclude that the logos in John 1:1 is Jesus which the bible did not say.
The Bible ITSELF does NOT say, “And Jesus was made flesh”, but rather the word of TRUTH simple says, and the WORD was made flesh. The Bible does NOT say that the SON was made flesh, but rather states that the "LOGOS" translated as the Word was made flesh.
The correct question you should ask is WHAT is the logos or what is the “WORD”?
For example if a tree is fashioned to become a house, then it would NOT be correct to dogmatically demand that the HOUSE was made into a house. The tree is NO longer a tree, because it was made by builder to be made into a HOUSE. We know that the house came from a tree, but we also know that the tree in and of itself alone by itself did not become a house. We know that there was a BUILDER, or one who had a THOUGHT to create a house and he used a tree to form, fashion, build, or create that house.
So again WHAT is the Word? Or more precisely what is the WORD? What is the "logos"? Or simply put what is the word?
This time rather than listening to the THEORIES of theologians why not we simply allow the Bible itself to teach us what the “WORD” truly is in the LIGHT of the whole word of God.
Let us look up the Greek word in the original text that is translated as “Word” here in the King James Version of the Bible and literally nearly all other translations. Now I say nearly all other translations, but there are still a few translations that correctly translate this Greek word as “word” rather than “Word” with a capital “W”, which to me influences the reader to be deceived as to what the word “word” truly means based upon what the whole word of God teaches us. To say this another way some Christians read and understand John 1:14, “the word was made flesh” to mean that JESUS was made flesh, but this is not what the clear, plain, and simple word of truth teaches us.
Here is what the New Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible defines the Greek word “logos” as meaning. It is Strong's number 3056 and it is defined as; something SAID, including THOUGHT. It is translated 218 times as "word" NOT being capitalized, 50 times as SAYING, 8 times as account, as in, a record of speech recorded as written words, 8 times as SPEECH, 7 times as "Word" capitalized to signify Christ as the divine EXPRESSION that refers to Jesus the Christ.
The Bible concordance goes on to say that “logos” denotes the EXPRESSION of THOUGHT and NOT the mere name of an object, as in, the embodying a conception or idea. In other words, the word was not the name of God's Son or some other divine eternal Spirit being, who was WITH God at his SIDE in eternity past being created or not being created. But rather the word was Yahweh EXPRESSING his THOUGHTS that were WITH him and what God's expressed thoughts were God was.
To say this another way would be to say that when God's THOUGHT was for light to be brought forth into existence where light only existed WITH God in his THOUGHTS before God SPOKE or EXPRESSED his thought of light coming forth out from his mouth saying Light BE, then there was NO light. But AFTER God EXPRESSED his THOUGHT for light to BE by SPEAKING out of his mouth light be, then the logos, the SAYING of God, or the word BECAME light. This is HOW God himself alone creates all things. Now a tree is NOT the divine eternal God and a tree at the SAME time having TWO natures. So why then do some Christians dogmatically demand that Jesus must without fail be a God/man having TWO natures at the SAME time, when the Bible ITSELF does NOT teach us that Jesus had TWO natures during the days of his FLESH?
The concordance gives an example of this expression of thought found in Luke 7:7, where a centurion is telling Jesus to simply SPEAK, or SAY the WORD, the logos, and my servant will be healed.
“Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto you: but SAY in a WORD, and my servant shall be healed.”
So the centurion was asking Jesus to simply SPEAK a WORD, or speak forth a logos, saying that his servant is healed and I know that my servant will be healed. My point is this; out of 207 times that the Greek word “logos” is used in the New Testament it is ALWAYS translated as meaning SPEECH, the spoken word of God, and SAYING of God, something that is SPOKEN each and every time, except for the 7 times when it is personified as being Jesus Christ, the SON OF God, where the translators themselves chose to translate the Greek word “Logos” as the “Word”.
And also please keep in mind that in the original text these 7 occurrences of the Greek word “logos” were NOT capitalized. In other words, the Greek word “logos” was translated by Bible theologians as “Word” meaning SPEECH, something SAID, a thought that was WITHIN, which is then SPOKEN as an EXPRESSION of THOUGH, the EXPRESSED IMAGE. But BECAUSE it is capitalized as Word, then it deceives some readers to wrongly believe that the "word" or logos was a SEPARATE divine eternal Spirit being, who was WITH the God at his SIDE.
In other words, all honest Bible scholars must agree that the Greek word "logos" in the original text that was correctly translated as "word" meaning SPEECH, something SAID, something SPOKEN or the SAYING of God 200 times SHOULD have been translation these other 7 times as "word" also. But for some REASON SOME theologians TRANSLATED the same exact Greek word “logos” as “Word” being capitalized 7 times to identify THE God's divine EXPRESSION referring to Jesus Christ. Jesus is the EXPRESSED IMAGE of God, who is the EXPRESS IMAGE of God meaning that God SPOKE Jesus into being to become the image of God's CHARACTER.
You people clearly interpret the bible according to you own belief.
This is vice versa and I can say that to you as well, now leave what your denomination has taught you and read the bible again prayerfully and God will help you discern the truth.
v. 16 - And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
v. 17 - And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
v. 18 - I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Don't tell me thats God Father there, who liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore?
v16 - No doubt that`s Jesus speaking in contrast to Revelation 19:15
v17 - "...I am the first and the last".
This could mean that Jesus is the FIRST and the LAST man to DIE for the sins of the people. This could mean that Jesus is the first and the last whom God would highly exalt to sit and rule FOR Yahweh at his right side. In other words, it is not sound Biblical teaching to dogmatically demand that since Jesus said the same or very similar words that Almighty God says that this proves that Jesus is Almighty God himself. We, as God's representatives, speak God's word but that does not make us to be Almighty God. Jesus spoke what his God and Father TOLD him to speak.
v. 18 - No doubt that`s Jesus speaking
I`m not gonna tell you that because it is not God the Father but it is his son Jesus.
Now to reply your answer of Genesis 1:26,
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
Now who was God talking to?
> Was it really the heavenly beings? or the Cherubim or the Seraphim? Are we like in the image of the heavenly beings? or does God needs a counsel from the heavenly beings? I don't think so. Isaiah 40:13 "Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD, Or as His counselor has taught Him?"
> Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. What image or likeness was it? Read further. Genesis 1: 27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.". We are made in the image of God not the heavenly beings.
The same way in Genesis 3:22.
"Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”
> the man has become like one of Us. Again the "Us" word.
In Isaiah 6:8 it also says,
"Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?” Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”
> Think about it.
Why this is important. Because Jesus Christ is the Alpha and Omega. (Revelation 1:8-18) (John 1:1)
And I just answered it and it seems my answer oh rather our(puchoy) answer does not satisfy you because it does not fit in your man made doctrines. So bro have an open mind and desire to seek for the truth not copy or conform to what your denomination teaches you. (I have said this many times, apology for that I was assuming either way please heed my request let us study the bible along with the Holy Spirit within us that is the same Holy Spirit that anoints our Lord Jesus Christ)
So whats your take since Jesus has all the authority that the God the Father has. So what is Jesus to you?
When Jesus was here on earth sya ay tao, but right after magawa nya yung will ni God he was exalted by God to be a god to rule earth in the world to come.
@rofin, are you with this guy? Have the same concept of a Perfect Life?
No and Yes we share some belief but not all.
John 17:5
"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."
In other words, Jesus understood the glory that the SON OF God would be glorified with by the Father was prophesied from the BEGINNING before the foundation of the world.
Obviously Jesus is speaking of the promises of God that God promised in his mind and plan before the world began to highly exalt the Son of MAN Jesus and glorify him with his own glory so that the Son of MAN would become God’s ETERNAL Son, the firstborn of God new creation made in God’s perfect image of righteousness and immortality. And that to me, is the true meaning of John 17:5 which again does not prove that Jesus preexisted with God at his side as a separated divine person in eternity past. Jesus knew that the Scriptures spoke of him and he was simply asking God to glorify him with the glory God had promised in his word before the world began.
.....whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Micah 5:2
You underlined the last statements of Micah 5:2 which it seems you understood that Jesus preexisted? Right?
But here is another explanation that agrees in the light of the whole word of God
Micah 5:2 is PROPHECY of the TWO GOINGS forth of the coming Messiah that had it ORIGIN from OLD, from ANCIENT times speaking of before the foundation of the world. This verse has nothing to do with God's Son preexisting in all eternity past with or without a beginning in eternity past.
The Bible teaches us that the LAMB was SLAIN from BEFORE the foundation of the world, but this does NOT LITERALLY mean that Jesus was crucified and died for our sin BEFORE mankind was ever created. But rather the ORIGIN of God's PLAN of salvation was of from OLD, FROM EVERLASTING or even from ANCIENT times.
What this verse is TRULY teaching us is that the ANCESTRY or the LINAGE from which Jesus would be BORN was ordained by God in ancient times and NOT that the SON OF God was ACTUALLY BEGOTTEN in ancient times. Please read Micah 5:2 from some other translations and you will clearly see what I mean.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Bible in Basic English.
“And you, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, the least among the FAMILIES of Judah, out of you one WILL COME to me who is to be ruler in Israel; whose going out has been PURPOSED from time past, from the eternal days.”
From this translation, it is made clear to us that the goings forth of Jesus were PURPOSED from time past before these goings forth were to take place, from eternal days. Now while the Hebrew words translated as eternal days can mean from everlasting or from eternity past these words also mean from ANCIENT days, from OLD times, along period of time, an age, and from the beginning of the world.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Common English Bible.
“As for you, Bethlehem of Ephrathah, though you are the least significant of Judah's forces, one who is to be a ruler in Israel on my behalf WILL COME OUT from you. His ORIGIN is from remote times, from ANCIENT DAYS.”
From this translation along with the other translation that we have already looked at we clearly see that the ORIGIN of Jesus the Messiah WILL COME OUT of the family line of Judah, which was PURPOSED to BE from long ago from ANCIENT DAYS.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Complete Jerusalem Bible.
“But you, Beit-Lechem near Efrat, so small among the CLANS (or FAMILIES) of Y'hudah, out of you WILL COME FORTH to me the future ruler of Isra'el, whose ORIGINS (plural meaning the TWO GOINGS FORTH of Jesus the coming King of Israel speaking of the FIRST and SECOND COMINGS of the Messiah) are far in the past, back in ANCIENT TIMES.”
Again the two comings or the two goings forth of the Messiah were PURPOSED or were ORDAINED in ANCIENT TIMES but not without fail from all eternity past to mean that the Son always existed as some demand this verse to mean.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Good News Translation.
“The Lord says, Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are one of the smallest towns in Judah, but out of you I will bring a ruler for Israel, whose FAMILY LINE goes back to ancient times.”
From this translation, we can see that the ORIGIN of the Messiah is speaking of his ANCESTRY or his FAMILY LINE being out of Judah.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the New International Reader Bible.
“The LORD says, "Bethlehem, you might not be an important town in the NATION of Judah. But OUT of YOU WILL COME a ruler over Israel for me. His FAMILY LINE goes back to the early years of your nation. It goes all the way back to days of long ago." Bethlehem was also called Ephrathah.”
This verse clearly shows us that the ORIGIN of the Messiah or the King that is PROPHESIED TO COME WILL COME OUT of the FAMILY LINE of the nation of Judah and his ORIGIN was PURPOSED all the way back to days of long ago.
Here is Micah 5:2 from the Young's Literal Translation.
“And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth -- to be ruler in Israel, And his COMINGS FORTH [are] of old, From the days of antiquity.”
From this translation, we can see that this verse is speaking of the FIRST AND SECOND COMINGS of the Messiah and that his ORIGIN or his FAMILY LINE will be from JUDAH.
----> Who is this ruler in Israel that will come out in Bethlehem?
---->Jesus
