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Atheists and Agnostics Meeting Place
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Yung tipong FB title: "Laway Lang ang Puhunan"? Hahaha. Why not, perhaps one of these days. Easiest moneymaking scheme ever: collect your goods in the shady no-proof-whatsoever afterlife while we take care of what you have right now or something like that. Hehe. Whew!
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pwede bang sumali kahit wala ako sa dalawang yan. Open minded ako (not on networking ha).
Gusto ko mga ganitong mga kwentohan.
No problem man. Welcome. Dunno ano nangyari sa mayari ng thread na to but some like me take it upon ourselves to treat this as our own base here at sb.
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Social Media Is Synchronizing Human Civilization
Human activity, whether commercial or social, contains patterns and moments of synchronicity. In recent years, social media like Twitter has provided an unprecedented volume of data on the daily activities of humans all over the world. Observing this activity on the scale of a city, a continent, or the globe reveals the patterns. In a paper published by the Journal of the Royal Society Interface, researchers at the New England Complex Systems Institute (NECSI) have observed a new pattern of synchronized activity: a simultaneous peak of Twitter activity stretching across half the planet, from Europe and Africa to Asia and Oceania.
Everyone has their daily routine, which for many people now includes tweeting. NECSI researchers observed over 500 million tweets to obtain the aggregate synchronizations created by everyone's routine.
When viewing the tweets of a single city, human activity resembles a heart beat: a strong peak of activity coinciding with movement contracting into the city center for the work day, followed by a secondary peak of activity representing afterwork social and commercial activity, and ending in a period of low activity and dispersal away from the city center as people return to homes to sleep. As NECSI watched this daily pattern over the course of the year, they found it had more to do with the demands of work schedules than the natural cycles of night and day, changing little in comparison to the shortening and lengthening days of the year.
Using tweets, NECSI took the pulse of 52 metropolitan areas all over the world. While the heart beat pattern was observed in each city, some locations had denser or more disperse work and home neighborhoods. The relevant size and timing of peaks of activity also varied. Perhaps not surprisingly, cities in the same longitude and timezone tend to have similar patterns. However, NECSI observed a new pattern of synchronized activity falling across longitudes 0 to 180: Europe's morning peak of Twitter activity coincides with Asia's large peak of afternoon activity.
Global patterns of human activity, as observed by NECSI through tweets, have synchronized across the entire Eurasian landmass. This pattern is formed of commercial as well as social behavior. It represents a global interchange of ideas and information, a new level of interconnectedness in our increasingly complex world.
SOURCE
Global Patterns of Synchronization in Human Communications
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yo, salamat dito ts.
btw, nag-aral ako sa isang christian school from highschool to college...
nung highschool pa marami na akong doubts...
nag materialize lang talaga ung pagiging agnostic ko nung 3rd year college...
and I think maganda tong thread na to dagdag kaalaman paps.. thanks ditp
btw, nag-aral ako sa isang christian school from highschool to college...
nung highschool pa marami na akong doubts...
nag materialize lang talaga ung pagiging agnostic ko nung 3rd year college...
and I think maganda tong thread na to dagdag kaalaman paps.. thanks ditp
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binalik mo sakin tanong ko a... hehehe... ge sagutin q narin... for me a religion in a Christian way is something that must be follow and goes by WHAT IS IN THE BIBLE... and i consider a religion as a salvation of our soul when the armagedon comes...
o, di ba yan ang purpose kung bakit may mga religions?...
-the real purpose of religion is to guide and lead people to happiness, how to face sufferings in life., kaya nag tataka ako sa iba't ibang religion-sects kung bakit may ginagawa silang gestures na nagpapahirap sa kanila kung ang purpose nga nang religion is to lead people to happiness.
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^ kasi nga di ba dahil sa Pascal's Wager na yan. Nakakasawa na din na dadaanin na lang lagi dyan yung argument. So good kung by grace
i'm a buddhist by the way. i'm not seeking salvation, i'm seeking enlightenment
ano sect mo boss?
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It is because ordinary people(christian or atheist) don't really care that's why the anti-climate lobby group is big, popular opinion matters. These big oil companies are still winning buying time until they remarket themselves as green energy company until the effects of climate change drastically takes effect decades or 100years from now.
But this is when TESLA and other startup companies hustle them off, now BMW and other companies are now investing more into electric car.
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Imagine a hundred years or so from now we'll have Shell, Exxon, Petron, Chevron, Royal Dutch, BP (lucky D'Arcy) on top of the world as the best green companies on Earth (and perhaps a few space colonies by then), their former reputations largely forgotten. Mother of all ironies. Unless Musk and the new kids on the block would have their say, of course.
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Many rank and file Christians sincerely believe the Bible is a direct communication from God to man. I know I used to believe it was when I was a Christian. And from recent conversations with many sincere Christians I know this is currently true for many believers. Once it is proven to our God-given reason that the Bible is strictly a man-made collection of mythology the mind loses yet another shackle of “revelation” and is soon on its way to full freedom and progress.
The Bible was not handed to mankind by God, nor was it dictated to human stenographers by God. It has nothing to do with God. In actuality, the Bible was VOTED to be the word of God by a group of men during the 4th century.
According to Professor John Crossan of Biblical Studies at DePaul University the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great (274-337 CE), who was the first Roman Emperor to convert to Christianity, needed a single canon to be agreed upon by the Christian leaders to help him unify the remains of the Roman Empire. Until this time the various Christian leaders could not decide which books would be considered “holy” and thus “the word of God” and which ones would be excluded and not considered the word of God.
Emperor Constantine, who was Roman Emperor from 306 CE until his death in 337 CE, used what motivates many to action – MONEY! He offered the various Church leaders money to agree upon a single canon that would be used by all Christians as the word of God. The Church leaders gathered together at the Council of Nicaea and voted the “word of God” into existence. (I wish to thank Brian Show for pointing out in his rebuttal to this article that the final version of the Christian Bible was not voted on at the Council of Nicaea, per se. The Church leaders didn’t finish editing the “holy” scriptures until the Council of Trent when the Catholic Church pronounced the Canon closed. However, it seems the real approving editor of the Bible was not God but Constantine! This fact is revealed in the second counter-rebuttal to Brian Show’s first rebuttal to this article. This counter-rebuttal makes the following important statement and backs it up with FACTS – “Therefore, one can easily argue that the first Christian Bible was commissioned, paid for, inspected and approved by a pagan emperor for church use.” Of course, I’d like to express my deep appreciation to fellow Deist Peter Murphy for the great research work he did in order to write such a great counter-rebuttal!)
In the landmark work by H.G. Wells, The Outline of History, Vol. I, pages 462-463, we read,
It (the Council of Nicaea) marks the definite entry upon the stage of human affairs of the Christian Church and of Christianity as it is generally understood in the world to-day. It marks the exact definition of Christian teaching by the Nicene Creed.
Constantine ordered and financed 50 parchment copies of the new “holy scriptures.” It seems with the financial element added to the picture, the Church fathers were able to overcome their differences and finally agree which “holy” books would stay and which would go.
Compare the man-made origins of Christianity and its various dogmas to the simplicity of Deism. Deism is belief in God based only on reason and the creation itself. It makes no claim to false “revelations” as all of the “revealed” religions do. To Deists, proof of the Designer is in the design.
To quote Thomas Paine,
Were man impressed as fully and as strongly as he ought to be with the belief of a God, his moral life would be regulated by the force of that belief; he would stand in awe of God and of himself, and would not do the thing that could not be concealed from either. To give this belief the full opportunity of force, it is necessary that it acts alone. This is Deism. But when, according to the Christian Trinitarian scheme, one part of God is represented by a dying man, and another part, called the Holy Ghost, by a flying pigeon, it is impossible that belief can attach itself to such wild conceits. . . .
The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authorities; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion. Not anything can be studied as a science, without our being in possession of the principles upon which it is founded; and as this is not the case with Christian theology, it is therefore the study of nothing.
Instead then of studying theology, as is now done out of the Bible and Testament, the meanings of which books are always controverted and the authenticity of which is disproved, it is necessary that we refer to the Bible of the Creation. The principles we discover there are eternal and of divine origin; they are the foundation of all the science that exists in the world, and must be the foundation of theology.
We can know God only through His works. We cannot have a conception of any one attribute but by following some principle that leads to it. We have only a confused idea of His power, if we have not the means of comprehending something of its immensity. We can have no idea of His wisdom, but by knowing the order and manner in which it acts. The principles of science lead to this knowledge; for the Creator of man is the Creator of science, and it is through that medium that man can see God, as it were, face to face. [Note: These thoughts are reminiscent of Ibn Rushd's—Averroes'— ideas in matters of religion]
On May 12, 1797 while living in Paris, France Tom Paine wrote the following letter to a Christian friend who was trying to convert Paine to Christianity. Paine’s response fits perfectly with this page regarding the origins of the Bible.
In your letter of the twentieth of March, you give me several quotations from the Bible, which you call the Word of God, to show me that my opinions on religion are wrong, and I could give you as many, from the same book to show that yours are not right; consequently, then, the Bible decides nothing, because it decides any way, and every way, one chooses to make it.
But by what authority do you call the Bible the Word of God? for this is the first point to be settled. It is not your calling it so that makes it so, any more than the Mahometans calling the Koran the Word of God makes the Koran to be so. The Popish Councils of Nice and Laodicea, about 350 years after the time the person called Jesus Christ is said to have lived, voted the books that now compose what is called the New Testament to be the Word of God. This was done by yeas and nays, as we now vote a law.
The Pharisees of the second temple, after the Jews returned from captivity in Babylon, did the same by the books that now compose the Old Testament, and this is all the authority there is, which to me is no authority at all. I am as capable of judging for myself as they were, and I think more so, because, as they made a living by their religion, they had a self-interest in the vote they gave.
You may have an opinion that a man is inspired, but you cannot prove it, nor can you have any proof of it yourself, because you cannot see into his mind in order to know how he comes by his thoughts; and the same is the case with the word revelation. There can be no evidence of such a thing, for you can no more prove revelation than you can prove what another man dreams of, neither can he prove it himself.
It is often said in the Bible that God spake unto Moses, but how do you know that God spake unto Moses? Because, you will say, the Bible says so. The Koran says, that God spake unto Mahomet, do you believe that too? No.
Why not? Because, you will say, you do not believe it; and so because you do, and because you don’t is all the reason you can give for believing or disbelieving except that you will say that Mahomet was an impostor. And how do you know Moses was not an impostor?
For my own part, I believe that all are impostors who pretend to hold verbal communication with the Deity. It is the way by which the world has been imposed upon; but if you think otherwise you have the same right to your opinion that I have to mine, and must answer for it in the same manner. But all this does not settle the point, whether the Bible be the Word of God, or not. It is therefore necessary to go a step further. The case then is: –
You form your opinion of God from the account given of Him in the Bible; and I form my opinion of the Bible from the wisdom and goodness of God manifested in the structure of the universe, and in all works of creation. The result in these two cases will be, that you, by taking the Bible for your standard, will have a bad opinion of God; and I, by taking God for my standard, shall have a bad opinion of the Bible.
The Bible represents God to be a changeable, passionate, vindictive being; making a world and then drowning it, afterwards repenting of what he had done, and promising not to do so again. Setting one nation to cut the throats of another, and stopping the course of the sun till the butchery should be done. But the works of God in the creation preach to us another doctrine. In that vast volume we see nothing to give us the idea of a changeable, passionate, vindictive God; everything we there behold impresses us with a contrary idea – that of unchangeableness and of eternal order, harmony, and goodness.
The sun and the seasons return at their appointed time, and everything in the creation claims that God is unchangeable. Now, which am I to believe, a book that any impostor might make and call the Word of God, or the creation itself which none but an Almighty Power could make? For the Bible says one thing, and the creation says the contrary. The Bible represents God with all the passions of a mortal, and the creation proclaims him with all the attributes of a God.
It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man. That bloodthirsty man, called the prophet Samuel, makes God to say, (I Sam. xv. 3) ‘Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.’
That Samuel or some other impostor might say this, is what, at this distance of time, can neither be proved nor disproved, but in my opinion it is blasphemy to say, or to believe, that God said it. All our ideas of the justice and goodness of God revolt at the impious cruelty of the Bible. It is not a God, just and good, but a devil, under the name of God, that the Bible describes.
What makes this pretended order to destroy the Amalekites appear the worse, is the reason given for it. The Amalekites, four hundred years before, according to the account in Exodus xvii. (but which has the appearance of fable from the magical account it gives of Moses holding up his hands), had opposed the Israelites coming into their country, and this the Amalekites had a right to do, because the Israelites were the invaders, as the Spaniards were the invaders of Mexico. This opposition by the Amalekites, at that time, is given as a reason, that the men, women, infants and sucklings, sheep and oxen, camels and asses, that were born four hundred years afterward, should be put to death; and to complete the horror, Samuel hewed Agag, the chief of the Amalekites, in pieces, as you would hew a stick of wood. I will bestow a few observations on this case.
In the first place, nobody knows who the author, or writer, of the book of Samuel was, and, therefore, the fact itself has no other proof than anonymous or hearsay evidence, which is no evidence at all. In the second place, this anonymous book says, that this slaughter was done by the express command of God: but all our ideas of the justice and goodness of God give the lie to the book, and as I never will believe any book that ascribes cruelty and injustice to God, I therefore reject the Bible as unworthy of credit.
As I have now given you my reasons for believing that the Bible is not the Word of God, that it is a falsehood, I have a right to ask you your reasons for believing the contrary; but I know you can give me none, except that you were educated to believe the Bible; and as the Turks give the same reason for believing the Koran, it is evident that education makes all the difference, and that reason and truth have nothing to do in the case.
You believe in the Bible from the accident of birth, and the Turks believe in the Koran from the same accident, and each calls the other infidel. But leaving the prejudice of education out of the case, the unprejudiced truth is, that all are infidels who believe falsely of God, whether they draw their creed from the Bible, or from the Koran, from the Old Testament, or from the New.
When you have examined the Bible with the attention that I have done (for I do not think you know much about it), and permit yourself to have just ideas of God, you will most probably believe as I do. But I wish you to know that this answer to your letter is not written for the purpose of changing your opinion. It is written to satisfy you, and some other friends whom I esteem, that my disbelief of the Bible is founded on a pure and religious belief in God; for in my opinion the Bible is a gross libel against the justice and goodness of God, in almost every part of it.
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More Evidence Links Epilepsy With Vivid Religious Experiences
How can the rational and empirical forces of science explain visions of angels, conversations with God, and deals with the Devil?
For over a century, there have been studies on the link between epilepsy and vivid religious experiences. A new study has taken up the mantle that says it too has found a neurological relationship between religion, neuropsychological processes, and epilepsy. Their work can be found in the journal Mental Health, Religion and Culture.
Epilepsy is a neurological condition that can cause seizures and convulsions due to abnormal bursts of neurons firing off electrical impulses in the brain. It's also documented that people with epilepsy might be more inclined to experience vivid sensory religious experiences. Last year, scientists were fortunate enough to watch the moment a patient with right temporal lobe epilepsy underwent a religious experience while doctors were studying his brain activity.
"Past research has indicated that humans might have a distinctive neurological tendency toward being spiritually oriented," Brick Johnstone, a neuropsychologist and professor of health psychology, said in a statement. "This research supports the notion that the human propensity for religious or spiritual experiences may be neurologically based."
The study kicked off by asking individuals with epilepsy to carry out a survey about behavior associated with their condition and another on their religious activities and spiritual orientations. Of the participants, 32 percent identified as Protestant, 10 percent as Catholic, 5 percent as Buddhist, 5 percent as atheist, 38 percent as other, and 10 percent did not indicate any religious affiliation.
One particular finding came as a surprise to the researchers. Although they discovered a strong correlation between religious thoughts and epilepsy, they found no correlation between emotional thinking and epilepsy.
The implication of that, according to co-author Greyson Holliday, is that “people may have natural neurological predispositions to think about religion but not in a way that is necessarily associated with emotion.”
Of course, at the moment this finding is just a correlation they’ve found and not a direct cause. Nevertheless, the team of researchers have big plans for this field of study. They will go on to study the effects of brain surgery on religious experiences, which they hope will determine the specific nature of religiously oriented neuropsychological processes.
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Musk and the silicon valley kids are hustling it right now, automated car is fast improving(google vs tesla) tesla made the automated car project open source and space x has its first rocket vertical landing. Also Elon believes in intelligent design, very smart dude.
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Not to mention the jetson drones. But Uber lurks in the shadows over Tesla and Google's efforts.
Not to mention the jetson drones. But Uber lurks in the shadows over Tesla and Google's efforts.
yea, it makes sense since UBER specialize in transportation. But Google owns the internet, they can fund what ever they want, heck they can even buy UBER.
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Not to mention the jetson drones. But Uber lurks in the shadows over Tesla and Google's efforts.
yea, it makes sense since UBER specialize in transportation. But Google owns the internet, they can fund what ever they want, heck they can even buy UBER.
tanong ko pang po......atheist ka pag di ka nininiwala na may diyos....agnostic ka naman pag naniniwala kang imposibleng magkaron ng diyos.....ano naman po ang tawag sayo pag naniniwala kang tayo mismo ay God.....at ang religion ko ay LOVE
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It would be interesting how the current lawsuit by Google versus Uber goes. Uber appears to be very good at employing the dark forces to outmaneuver corporate and national interests to position itself at the top.
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pinamalapit cguro: humanism—yung tipong "Man, the measure of all things." Similar sa Kemetic (Egyptian) and classical Greek traditions. Actually most ancient—Western or Eastern—traditions carry this idea. "Bear in mind that you are gods in flesh wrappings. Discover your divine nature." Dualism: master the opposites to master yourself. Ying-Yang. Swastika: came thousands of years before Hitler the stooge made it unfashionable and distasteful.
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Can We Distinguish Between a Religion and a Con Game?
The human propensity to believe the improbable keeps church doors open. It is also the reason that confidence tricksters live well. Perhaps prophets are merely con men who specialize in the spiritual. There are two ways to test out this idea. First, are mainstream religions founded by con men? Second, if one were to set up a fake religion, would it get exposed?
Mormonism is an intriguing case history because it has a very shady past but has come to be accepted as a mainstream religion. As a comparatively new world religion it is susceptible to historical documentation in ways that were impossible for, say, Christianity. We do not know whether Jesus ever existed as depicted in the gospels and historians like to expose problems in the New Testament account of his life. Joseph Smith actually existed and had a real criminal record.
Mormon founder Joseph Smith as a con man
Smith’s criminality is sketched by the late atheist writer Christopher Hitchens:
In March, 1826, a court in Bainbridge, New York, convicted a twenty-one-year-old man of being a “disorderly person and an impostor.” That ought to have been all we ever heard of Joseph Smith, who at trial admitted to defrauding citizens by organizing mad gold-digging expeditions and also to claiming to possess dark or “necromantic” powers.
Hitchens provides a scathing account of how the Book of Mormon was produced noting that “The actual story of the imposture is almost embarrassing to read and almost embarrassingly easy to uncover.” His account draws on the work of professional historian Fawn Brodie and her book No Man Knows My History (1945/1973).
Hitchens provides a scathing account of how the Book of Mormon was produced noting that “The actual story of the imposture is almost embarrassing to read and almost embarrassingly easy to uncover.” His account draws on the work of professional historian Fawn Brodie and her book No Man Knows My History (1945/1973).
Hitchens concludes: “Quite recent scholarship has exposed every single other Mormon ‘document’ as at best a scrawny compromise and at worst a pitiful fake... “
If Smith’s texts were embarrassing fakes, the motivation underlying his prophecy is just as spurious. According to Hitchens:
Like Muhammad, Smith could produce divine revelations at short notice and often simply to suit himself (especially, and like Muhammad, when he wanted a new girl and wished to take her as another wife). As a result he overreached himself and came to a violent end. ... Still, this story raises some very absorbing questions, concerning what happens when a plain racket turns into a serious religion before our eyes.
Smith’s legacy was cleaned up via subsequent “divine revelations” that rejected first polygamy and then racism at convenient historical turning points. So the historical development from fakery to respectable religion is a matter of record and there is no reason to believe that the genesis of any major religion was substantially different.
Starting a fake religion
Religious people may be incredulous of this conclusion, so it is interesting to see what happens when someone sets out to found a fake religion. Would this work, or would members promptly see through the deception and leave?
American Indian film director Vikram Gandhi was engaged in a documentary about yogis and their followers. He concluded that these holy men were frauds, and confidence tricksters, scores of whom plied their trade throughout India.
Such claims are easy to make but harder to prove. Vikram Gandhi wondered whether he could pass himself off as a guru here in the U.S. He cultivated a fake Indian accent, grew out his hair and beard and reinvented himself as Sri Kumare, a mystic hailing from a fictitious Indian village.
In the film, Sri Kumare founds his cult in Arizona where he unloads his bogus mysticism upon the unsuspecting public and soon draws a group of devoted followers. Instead of seeing through him, they seek his counsel on their life problems and become frighteningly dependent upon his new-age advice.
Whereas the film focuses mainly on the gullibility of followers, there is an equally disturbing transition in Kumare who warms to his leadership position. To his dismay, he realizes that he made more impact on other people’s lives as a fake guru than he ever did as himself. He dreads the moment when he must unveil the deception and softens the blow by telling the dupes that each can be their own guru.
Conclusion
So the conclusion is quite clear. Major religions are founded by confidence tricksters. Members of fake religions, such as the Kumare members, cannot tell the difference between the fake and established religions.
The underlying psychology may be fairly simple. Common confidence tricksters work their magic by telling victims what they want to hear. The same is true of successful prophets who offer pie in the sky bye and bye. This bolsters confidence in the future, provides peace of mind, and acts as a salve for the miseries and disappointments of everyday life.
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American Psychological Association To Classify Belief in God As a Mental Illness
[note: see succeeding article]
[note: see succeeding article]
According to the American Psychological Association (APA), a strong and passionate belief in a deity or higher power, to the point where it impairs one’s ability to make conscientious decisions about common sense matters, will now be classified as a mental illness.
The controversial ruling comes after a 5-year study by the APA showed devoutly religious people often suffered from anxiety, emotional distress, hallucinations, and paranoia. The study stated that those who perceived God as punitive was directly related to their poorer health, while those who viewed God as benevolent did not suffer as many mental problems. The religious views of both groups often resulted in them being disconnected from reality.
Dr. Lillian Andrews, professor of psychology, stated, “Every year thousands of people die after refusing life-saving treatment on religious grounds. Even when being told ‘you will die without this treatment’ patients reject the idea and believe that their God will still save them. Those lives could be saved simply by classifying those people as mentally unfit for decision making.”
“Jehovah Witnesses for instance,” Dr. Andrews continued, “will not accept blood under any circumstance. They would rather die than to receive life-saving donor blood. Many religious people believe they have “healing power” in their hands. Many believe they can communicate with God using a personal language, which is unknown to anyone but the communicator and God (known as speaking in tongues). Many often tell of seeing spirits. All of these are signs of a mental break and a loss of touch with reality. Religious belief and the angry God phenomenon has caused chaos, destruction, death, and wars for centuries. The time for evolving into a modern society and classifying these archaic beliefs as a mental disorder has been long overdue. This is the first of many steps to a positive direction.”
With the new classification, the APA will lobby to introduce legislation which would allow doctors the right to force life-saving treatment on those who refuse it for spiritual reasons on the grounds that they are mentally incapable of making decisions about their health.
The American Psychological Association says more information about the study and the new classification will be made available to the public in their upcoming journal (which is expected to be release in early August).
How Do You Distinguish between Religious Fervor and Mental Illness?
George Fox, whose visions inspired him to found the Quaker religion in the 1600s, was accused of being a madman.
Credit: Detail of an engraving by S. Allen, published in 1838, of a painting by S. Chinn, provenance unknown. Wikimedia
Last year, the news article featured above circulated the web, announcing the American Psychological Association had decided to classify strong religious beliefs as mental illness. According to the article, a five-year study by the APA concluded that devout belief in a deity could hinder “one’s ability to make conscientious decisions about common sense matters.” Refusals by Jehovah’s Witnesses to accept life-saving treatments, such as blood transfusions, were given as an example.
Of course, this turned out to be a fake news story. But it still drew legitimate media coverage and outrage from readers. Fact-checking websites like Snopes had to point out the column was satirical.
To many, this was a ridiculous stunt. But for me, a physician specializing in mental health, the satire hits home in many ways. My colleagues and I often care for patients suffering from hallucinations, prophesying, and claiming to speak with God, among other symptoms—in mental health care, it’s sometimes very difficult to tell apart religious belief from mental illness.
Part of this is because the classification of mental illness often relies on subjective criteria. We can’t diagnose many mental health conditions with brain scans or blood tests. Our conclusions frequently stem from the behaviors we see before us.
Take an example of a man who walks into an emergency department, mumbling incoherently. He says he’s hearing voices in his head, but insists there’s nothing wrong with him. He hasn’t used any drugs or alcohol. If he were to be evaluated by mental health professionals, there’s a good chance he might be diagnosed with a psychotic disorder like schizophrenia.
But what if that same man were deeply religious? What if his incomprehensible language was speaking in tongues? If he could hear Jesus speaking to him? He might also insist nothing were wrong with him. After all, he’s practicing his faith.
It’s not just the ambiguities of mental health diagnoses that create this problem—the vague nature of how we define religion further complicates matters. For example, the Church of Scientology argued with the Internal Revenue Service for years to be classified as a charitable religious organization and to qualify for tax-exempt status. The Church eventually won this battle in 1993, a major step towards becoming a mainstream American religion.
According to Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief, a book by Pulitzer Prize-winning author Lawrence Wright, Scientologists believe in alien spirits inhabiting human bodies. Many believe they have special powers, like telekinesis and telepathy.
This puts mental health professionals in a tricky, cultural bind. Before 1993, should mental health professionals have treated patients expressing these beliefs as psychotic? After 1993, as faithful adherents?
These distinctions carry profound medical and legal implications. In his book Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith, journalist Jon Krakauer chronicled the case of Utah v. Lafferty, which addressed the 1984 killings of a woman and a child by two Mormon fundamentalists, Ron and Dan Lafferty. Over the last several decades, the question of Ron Lafferty’s mental health has played a key role in the case, as both sides have battled over his competency to stand trial.
The defense has argued that Ron is mentally ill and therefore should not be put to death. In interviews, Ron has claimed to be a prophet, endorsed hearing the voice of Christ, and expressed fears about “an evil homosexual spirit trying to invade his body through his anus.” Psychiatric experts have testified that Ron appeared to suffer from a psychotic illness, such as schizoaffective disorder.
The prosecution has sought to uphold his competency to stand trial, relating his bizarre ideas to religious practices worldwide. In the words of Dr. Noel Gardner, a psychiatrist who testified for the prosecution, “the majority of people in our country believe in God. Most people in our country say they pray to God. It’s a common experience. And while the labels that Mr. Lafferty uses are certainly unusual, the thought forms themselves are really very common…to all of us.”
A local news column from 2013 summed up the complexities of this ongoing case—“Where is the line between faith and delusion? Between malice and mental illness?”
These are tough questions. The practices of Scientology and Mormon fundamentalism are far from the only examples of this oft-blurred line between religion and mental health care. Virtually every religion has unusual beliefs and rituals, from consuming the flesh and blood of Christ in Catholicism to fasting as a way of atoning for sins in Judaism.
Some have gone so far as to argue religion may actually be a form of mental illness. In 2006, biologist Richard Dawkins published his book The God Delusion, in which he characterizes belief in God as delusional. Dawkins cites the definition of a delusion as “a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence, especially as a symptom of a psychiatric disorder.”
Dawkins’ book has been wildly controversial, prompting academic rebuttals, hate mail, and even threats to jail his publishers. Still, as of 2014, The God Delusion has sold over 3 million copies worldwide.
As a mental health provider, I don’t believe it’s my job to cast judgment on patients’ religious beliefs. It’s my job to use medical evidence to evaluate and treat mental illness so as to alleviate suffering among my patients. Today, we have some objective medical tests to diagnose mental illness, as in neurosyphilis or B12 deficiency. But we need more to help guide us through the difficult circumstances in which mental health care and religion collide.
In time though, perhaps we will. I have faith.
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Not to mention the jetson drones. But Uber lurks in the shadows over Tesla and Google's efforts.
Did not research about his company AutoXbaka pwede siyang lumaban kila Tesla and Google . Self driving car pero not sure if the car doesnt use gas .
maganda ung sagot mo sa tanong ko Stormer0628...now i know were i realy belong...hehe.....dati kasi tingin ko sa sarili ko atheist ako kasi di ako naniniwala sa nga Gods pero habang nadadagdagan ang kaalaman ko nagiiba pananaw ko....narerealize ko na tao ang gumawa at nag imbento ng religion,sience at superman movies.....kayang gawin ng tao ang lahat......siguro ndi magtatagal mabibigyang buhay din natin ang mars.....i am humanist and i believe we humans are God....walang God of bible o kahit anong magical God...
ayan....nakapag post ulit....hehe.....peace po tayo ha
ayan....nakapag post ulit....hehe.....peace po tayo ha
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the problem lang is nasa pinas tayo at maraming di nakaka intindi sa mga pananaw natin then when the time comes na suddenly na express mo yung paniniwala mo bigla kang sasabihan nung mga religous person(mabisyo,may kabit, malakas uminom) na "demonyo" kadaw kasi wala kang dyos parang utang na loob mo pang iexplain sa kanila kung bakit ka ganyan . Pero depende narin sa diskarte natin yan kung paano natin dadalhin yung mga beliefs natin , example sakin is one time nakipag talo talaga ako sa mother ko na walang silbi yung pagdadasal kung hindi mo sosolutionan , binato kagad ako ng hihintayin nalang daw niya ako humingi ng tulong sa dyos hihintayin niya daw nagalit sakin e hahaha (para sa akin yung meaning niya is when the time na hirap na hirap nako sa buhay at kelangan ko ng tumawag ng dyos ) parang ng dahil sa paniniwala niya nasabi niya sa sarili niyang anak yun pero syempre deny niya parin na hindi yun yung ibig sabihin niya pero sinubukan ko yung ganung topic sa GF ko which is same din sila ng sinabi na hihintayin niya din na tumawag ako sa dyos dahil sa hirap ng buhay at tinanong ko meaning niya which is tama ako . See what religion can do .
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AutoX—impressive! From PhD to big-league business. Galing ng business model niya, cross-licensing, platform independent. Sagap nga naman lahat ng vehicle manufacturers.
Btw, puno inbox mo, been trying to pm you back (re: viking?)....
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dun sa thread ko na Abrahamic traditions (nasa siggy ko), I will try to cover all of these.
meron pa ibang alternative to Humanism, which are more or less related. Yung kay Ayn Rand na Objectivism is one way, meron naman mas neutral ang gusto: just plain freethinker gusto nila tawag sa sarili nila. But as a Humanist you're in good company: maraming giants sa humanities (literature, arts, music), science identify themselves as humanists.
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It will take some time for relatively new ideas to take root in one culture. Depende rin sa specific backgrounds mo. Atheism medyo lumalaganap na rin sa Pilipinas according to the latest demographics.
Pag ganito, madalas bumabalik isip ko sa Scandinavian countries (Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Finland, Belgium): sa kanila very smooth ang transition nila from religion to almost national atheism. Ang key is that early on, yung intelligentsia nila established freethinker schools around their countries offering full academic courses. In the end, they turned out a critical amount of great graduates who eventually took over the helm of their nations and become inspiration for a new way of thinking. Walang direct confrontation between religion and people halos ang nangyari: the people became educated and realized by themselves how they had been fooled by their religions all along, and quietly quit attending churches. Churches suffered from lack of attendance, many becoming restaurants, sports gyms, etc., and religion now quietly fading away in the background. Galing talaga ng precedent nila.
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The irony of education: Pinag-aaral ka para maganda ang buhay. But once you applied it to something religious, either they say to drop what you have learned or receive the punishment.
Hardships are part of life. The problem is how to get past it. There are many solutions but we pick only one.
Ganyan din ako sa asawa ko but I get along with her beliefs para wala ng away. But it doesn't stay that I'm back to religious stuff again. Ayaw ko lang talaga ng away.
Mahirap mag-raise ng atheism/ agnoticism / skepticism dito sa pinas. We're surrounded a lot of close minded religious sects.
The only thing we could do is raise our kids properly and guide them when they ask these kind of questions.
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AutoX—impressive! From PhD to big-league business. Galing ng business model niya, cross-licensing, platform independent. Sagap nga naman lahat ng vehicle manufacturers.
Btw, puno inbox mo, been trying to pm you back (re: viking?)....
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It will take some time for relatively new ideas to take root in one culture. Depende rin sa specific backgrounds mo. Atheism medyo lumalaganap na rin sa Pilipinas according to the latest demographics.
Pag ganito, madalas bumabalik isip ko sa Scandinavian countries (Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Finland, Belgium): sa kanila very smooth ang transition nila from religion to almost national atheism. Ang key is that early on, yung intelligentsia nila established freethinker schools around their countries offering full academic courses. In the end, they turned out a critical amount of great graduates who eventually took over the helm of their nations and become inspiration for a new way of thinking. Walang direct confrontation between religion and people halos ang nangyari: the people became educated and realized by themselves how they had been fooled by their religions all along, and quietly quit attending churches. Churches suffered from lack of attendance, many becoming restaurants, sports gyms, etc., and religion now quietly fading away in the background. Galing talaga ng precedent nila.
mas maganda padaw features niya kesa sa ginagawa ni google at tesla sana maging successfull yung mga ganitong ventures para di na tayo dependent sa oil.
Full nga yung inbox boss pero nag delete nako haha naalala ko bakit walang reply yun pala full na inbox anyways tapos ko nang basahin about norse mythology maganda yung concept talaga na cucurious talaga ako sa mga ganito nag read muna ako neto before finishing Vikings series para naman alam ko yung tungkol sa mga gods nila.
Kung may freethinker movement lang sana dito sa pinas mas mapapabilis kahit tumulong by sharing lang the advocacy then the group/page itself ok na, yan lang naman kulang dito sa atin tsaka yung mga millennials parang di na naman masyadong religious ang problema sabik sa likes sa FB kaya may tendency parin na mag post na mga religous qoutes para lang maka gain ng likes lol.
The irony of education: Pinag-aaral ka para maganda ang buhay. But once you applied it to something religious, either they say to drop what you have learned or receive the punishment.
Hardships are part of life. The problem is how to get past it. There are many solutions but we pick only one.
Ganyan din ako sa asawa ko but I get along with her beliefs para wala ng away. But it doesn't stay that I'm back to religious stuff again. Ayaw ko lang talaga ng away.
Mahirap mag-raise ng atheism/ agnoticism / skepticism dito sa pinas. We're surrounded a lot of close minded religious sects.
The only thing we could do is raise our kids properly and guide them when they ask these kind of questions.
so ano ginagawa mo ngayon boss ruer? sumasama ka sa mga gatherings nila ? yun nga ang problem ko I mean wala pakong anak pero in the future paano ko kaya iraraise yung anak ko by my beliefs ba or yung nakasanayan na religion kasi for sure pagpanganak sa kanya kelangan binyagan.
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I'll bet my zero bitcoin account [
] those people from AutoX would occupy the next billionaires' list in a few years. These are not ordinary men afterall, most of them coming from such companies as Microsoft, Intel, etc. To do what they had done in six months when the Tesla guys and other outfits took years and use of global mapping tech while they managed to do it without speaks volumes what kind of brains these people have. And their scientific acumen also seems to translate into business IQ.Vikings? Ah, malalaman mo diyan that Loki is more a complex character than the version that movies portray, hehe. Mas kuha ng Marvel series yung essence nya, but that is another medium of course.
May mga nondenominational schools naman satin kahit saan, yun nga lang stratospheric din ang tuition, like Montessori. Ang kalamangan ng Scandinavian countries, the state provides free education from early on to higher levels. That's where the 50% tax go. Nobody is complaining, since these Viking descendants also are some of the highest earning people on Earth—also always declared as the best places to live with the happiest people to boot. Add also the lowest crime rate all over the place of the planet.
The Scandinavian socioeconomic model is the way to the future. They have long identified the source of inequality in society and seem to be doing well taking it out of the social equation. How is that?
Start with the mental case of hoarding as the root of it all. Many adopted children from the most depressed countries of Africa show it. Studies reveal that they do it because they are uncertain whether their good fortunes under the care of adoptive families, mostly Western ones, will last long. So they hoard for the future. In the larger social context, the top populations of most countries will have the largest share of their respective countries' wealth in order to secure the future of their children and beyond. The Scandinavians pinned it all down to economic insecurity. Hence they instituted nationwide reforms to make top-notch education free for all, and the graduates look forward to get hired in world-class industries paying some of the highest salaries in the world. What parent, then, would have to worry about the future of their children under that setup? Under the model, they no longer have any reason to hoard for the future, since they are secure in the knowledge that their children will live in a world that is fair to their ambition and talents. No stress for the parents too, so they could enjoy the fruits of their labor traveling or anything to fill whatever what's left of their time on earth.
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