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do you believe in purgatory??

Hindi po king james ang sinasabi ko. Ang King james po ay katuladg ng lahat ng bible translated versions. Iba po yung sa catholic. Lumaki ako sa catholic school at nung college na ako natuto ako mag basa ng bible, merong dagdag na books sa catholic bible (NOT King James) na wala sa ibang mga bible versions na nahahawakan ko. Chineck ko din po yun, may added books sa catholic bible, kahit search nyo online. Pero ang mahirap ngayon, napaka dami ng point of views so hindi mo masabi kung ano ba talaga ang totoo.

Before pa po yung english version, may iba ng nakapag translate sa ibang language at dun yung sinasabi kong nangyari yung controversy.

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May sariling bible version ang catholic, not necessarily na ibang iba, I mean yung bible version na yun ang may added books. Hindi lang pansin kasi sa misa yung 4 books lang mathew, mark, luke and john lang kasi ang ginagamit.
 
Hindi po king james ang sinasabi ko. Ang King james po ay katuladg ng lahat ng bible translated versions. Iba po yung sa catholic. Lumaki ako sa catholic school at nung college na ako natuto ako mag basa ng bible, merong dagdag na books sa catholic bible (NOT King James) na wala sa ibang mga bible versions na nahahawakan ko. Chineck ko din po yun, may added books sa catholic bible, kahit search nyo online. Pero ang mahirap ngayon, napaka dami ng point of views so hindi mo masabi kung ano ba talaga ang totoo.

Before pa po yung english version, may iba ng nakapag translate sa ibang language at dun yung sinasabi kong nangyari yung controversy.

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May sariling bible version ang catholic, not necessarily na ibang iba, I mean yung bible version na yun ang may added books. Hindi lang pansin kasi sa misa yung 4 books lang mathew, mark, luke and john lang kasi ang ginagamit.

ahaha oo alam ko un! Sa old testament ba un pre? Makikita mo yan sa national book store!

Kwento ko lang kung hnd ako nagkakamali ah! Correct me if im wrong!

Noon kasi hnd pa natratranslate sa english ang bible. Maraming nag translate pero sinunog nila! Ngayon si king james un ung may authority na version thats why hnd nila kayang sunugin.

Ngayon hnd ko alam kung kaylan gumawa ang RC na translated na bible na may kasamang dagdag compare sa king james! Bkt kaya may dagdag no?

Eto ayon sa concordance eto bigyan kita ng pagkakasunod sunod tapos ituro mo sa akin kung alin dyan ung sa Catholic:

original manuscripsts 1500 bc
early copies mga codex
ancient copies
ancient version
vulgate 400 AD
masoretic text 500-950 A-D
wycliffe 1380
tyndale 1525
coverdale 1535
matthew 1537
great 1539
geneva 1560
bishop 1568
douay 1610

king james 1611
"ayan na ung kinikilalang authority version na ginagamit ng lahat!"

KJV revised version 1881
American standard 1901

tapos sumunod na ung mga modern translation.

Eto po ung sinasabi mong dagdag!

HISTORICAL: 1and2 maccabees and 1 esdras
TRADITIONAL: esther, susanna, song of the three holy children, bel and the dragon, judith, and tobit.
PROPHETIC: baruch and the prayer manasseh
APOCALYPTIC: 2 esdra and 4 esdra
INSTRUCTIVE: Ecclesiastic and wisdom of solomon

ang sa catholic dyan ay ung Douay bible!

DUOAY BIBLE: a roman catholic version made from the latin vulgate. The new testament was published at rheims, 1582; the old testament at duoay, 1609-1610. IT CONTAIN CONTROVERSIAL NOTES and, until recently, was generally accepted english version of the RC.

"Ang douay ay galing orginal manuscrip papuntang vulgate bigla nalang sumulpot at naging douay!"

"ang king james simula original manuscipts hanngang sa BISHOP doon kinuha un!"

ewan ko lang kung sa douay kasama na ung mga dagdag!

MAKIKITA MO NALANG PRE YUNG TRANSLATE NG KING JAMES VERSION, NEW AND OLD TESTAMENT LANG WALANG DAGDAG! Maraming pinagbatayan ng translation simula nung unang original hanggang sa bishop while ang douay doon lang kinuha sa vulgate.

EWAN KO LANG UNG UNANG TRANSLATE NG CATHOLIC ANG DOUAY KUNG KASAMA NA UNG MGA DAGDAG!
 
wag tayong maggawa ng mga salitang labas sa biblia para hindi maligaw. wala po yan sa bible
 
there's no such thing as purgatory.it's not even stated in the bible.there are only 2 destinations of humans when they die.It's either heaven or hell.
 
ahhhm..
pasingit lang ah..
hindi ko na tinapos basahin lahat.. ang hahabe e.. hehehe..

the answer is no.. there is no purgatory.

remember in the book of luke??.. there's a rich man and poor man named -Lazarus- (story of a richman and poorman who died, and where did they go after they died?)

both of them died. The poor man who believe in God go straight to Heaven and the rich man who did not believe in God go straight to hell after he died..

both of them saw each other in two different places which is heaven and hell.

the richman had 2 requests. The first one was he's asking for Lazarus to sent him a smallest quantity of water to cool his tounge but Abraham denied his request. The second was fpr Lazarus service again and he's asking to warn his brothers not to come into richman's place which is hell but Abraham denied his request. (come to think of it, Abraham did not meet the richman personally but he knows his name and his doings. The richman also did not meet Abraham personally but he knows that the Lazarus is with Abraham.

so, i believe i make myself clear that there's no purgaroty itself.. you will go straigh to heaven or hell after you died.


here's the verses

Luke 22:
And it came to pass , that the beggar died , and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died , and was buried ;

Luke 23:
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Luke 24:
And he cried and said , Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luke 25:
But Abraham said , Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted , and thou art tormented .

Luke 27:
Then he said , I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house

Luke 28:
For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Luke 29:
Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
 
Nagsalita si Jesu-Kristo tungkol sa kalagayan ng mga patay. Binanggit niya ito nang mamatay si Lazaro, isang taong kilaláng-kilalá niya. Sinabi ni Jesus sa kaniyang mga alagad: “Si Lazaro na ating kaibigan ay namamahinga.” Inakala ng mga alagad na ang ibig sabihin ni Jesus ay natutulog lamang si Lazaro para gumaling sa pagkakasakit. Nagkamali sila. Ganito ang paliwanag ni Jesus: “Si Lazaro ay namatay.” (Juan 11:11-14) Pansinin na inihambing ni Jesus ang kamatayan sa pamamahinga at pagtulog. Si Lazaro ay wala sa langit ni sa nag-aapoy na impiyerno o purgatoryo na sinasabi ng marami.. Hindi niya nakasama ang mga anghel o ang kaniyang mga ninuno. Si Lazaro ay hindi ipinanganak-muli na ibang tao. Siya ay namamahinga na sa kamatayan, na parang natutulog nang napakahimbing... hindi ko maisip kung paano nagsimula ang ideya na purgatoryo,impiyerno kaluluwa na humihiwalay.. tsk tskk..
 
wala pong porgatoryo.haha.wala kasi ako nakita sa bible

meron po! May sarili po silang interpretation! About purgatoryo. May nakita lang word na "PURGE" PURGATORYO NA DAW SA KABILANG BUHAY. Agree ka ba doon?

Paki INTERPRET NGA ITO: HEBREW 1:3
YAN KASI BASIHAN NILA.
 
parang iba naman ata ung nakalagay dyan goda.. hehehe..


Hebrew 1:13
13 To which of the angels did God ever say,

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”[g]?

???..d q magets e. hahaha..
 
parang iba naman ata ung nakalagay dyan goda.. hehehe..


Hebrew 1:13
13 To which of the angels did God ever say,

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”[g]?

???..d q magets e. hahaha..

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: (KJV)

eto pala interpret mo nga.
 
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: (KJV)

eto pala interpret mo nga.

ayan kita mo naman...

sa old testament may purgatoryo tapos gumawa ulit si Jesus ng purgatoryo "when he had by himself purged our sins" ok gets mo ba? tama ba? wag ka ng kumontra may apostolic succession ung sinasabi ko ok. :beat:
 
Kung may salitang purgatoryo sa Bible
MANINIWALA NA AKO SAU
IKAW NA NGA ang magpapabago ng paradigm ko......
 
Ganito kasi nangyayari e. Sa bible nakasulat na NANGARAL SI JESUS SA SPIRIT IN PRISON... Tapos kung titignan mo ung mga suporting verse ung SPIRIT IN PRISON sa KAILALIMAN NG LUPA IF I NOT MISTAKEN.

Nasaan na ngayon UNG TURO na pag "PURGE", "PAGLILINIS" AGAIN KUNG WALA NA NAMAN SA BIBLE.

Sinong POPE ANG NAGUTOS NIYON SA HISTORY.

ANG MAHIRAP KASI NAKUHA SILA NG MGA VERSE SA BIBLE PARA I CONNECT UNG PANINIWALA NILA KASO PAG DATING SA "PRACTICES NG PURGATORY" WALANG SINASABING "LILINISIN KA, PAG MARAMING KASALANAN MATAGAL KA DOON, PAG KOKONTI MABILIS KA DOON."

PAANO NILA NALAMAN KUNG ANUNG NANGYAYARI? Naka punta na ba sila sa PURGATORY?

Ganito nalang "ANALYSE NALANG NATIN VERSE SA VERSE" PARA HINDI NA NA OOUT OF CONTEXT.
 
huh?? wait ahh..

anu bang synonyms ng purged?? e db wash out or clean?? "when he had himself clean our sins" pero hindi ibig sabihin ng purge is purgatoryo na..
 
No...no...no...anu yon lugar na pwede mag stop over?wahohoho :laugh:
 
No...no...no...anu yon lugar na pwede mag stop over?wahohoho :laugh:

wahahah.. natawa naman ako dito.. stop over talaga ang term.. hahaha..

kung my purgatoryo talaga.. at dun nililinis ang kasalanan natin.. e d sana wala ng hell.. hahahaha..

ung mga hindi ba nakakadaan sa purgatoryo, diretso sa hell?? kawawa naman sila kung magkaganun... hahahaha..
 
Post ko lang to marami pa kasi akong ginagawa

3. purgatory


Ang salitang purgatorio ay hindi English o Tagalog in origin. Yan ay nagmula sa salitang Latin na: PURGATIONEM PECCATORUM, kaya naging PURGATORUM o Purgatorium. Ang ibig sabihin ay: PAGLILINIS o PAGPUPURGA NG KASALANAN. Ito ay galing sa Biblia:


Heb 1:3 "qui cum sit splendor gloriae et figura substantiae eius portansque omnia verbo virtutis suae PURGATIONEM PECCATORUM faciens sedit ad dexteram Maiestatis in excelsis"


Ang Purgatorio ay tumutukoy sa paglilinis ng kasalanan na sinasagawa ng Panginoong Jesu-Cristo sa mga yumao na. Kaya nga ito ang translation ng talata sa itaas:


Heb 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself PURGED OUR SINS, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"



1 CORINTHIANS 3:15

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.”


In 1 Corinthians 3:15, we see: “If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.” So we have a man whose works have been judged. His works are, in fact, burned; and he suffers loss; yet he is saved, but by fire. He suffers loss, but is saved by fire.


NOTHING IMPURE SHALL ENTER HEAVEN


If such satisfaction is not done on Earth, it is and must be done in Purgatory – assuming that the person dies in the state of grace (justification). The satisfaction must be done because the Book of Revelation, the Apocalypse, makes it clear that nothing impure shall enter Heaven.


Revelation 21:27 “There shall not enter into it anything defiled, or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie, but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb.”

We see the same thing in the Book of Hebrews.

Hebrews 12:14 “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.”


THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT THERE ARE MORTAL SINS AND LESSER (VENIAL) SINS

Mortal sins destroy the state of justification. That’s why Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Cor. 6:9, and Ephesians 5:5-8 teach that people who commit such mortal sins lose “their inheritance” in Heaven (justification). Examples of mortal sins are fornication, murder, drunkenness, lying, cheating, stealing, fraud, theft, masturbation, looking at pornography, giving full consent to impure thoughts, homosexuality, heresy, idolatry, violating the commandments, etc. If people die in the state of mortal sin, they will be damned. 1 John 5:16 distinguishes between sins which lead to death and sins which don’t.


1 John 5:16 “If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.”


OTHER INDIRECT PROOFS FOR PURGATORY: MATTHEW 5:25 AND MATTHEW 12:32


Matthew 5:25-26 “Agree with thy adversary quickly, while thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.”

We see that Jesus tells the parable of the man who, for his faults, is cast into prison until he pays up or satisfies for his debt. That’s exactly like Purgatory.


Matthew 12:32 is also very relevant to this issue.

Matthew 12:32 “And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


Why would Jesus say that the sin against the Holy Ghost will not be forgiven in this world or in the world to come?


BUT DIDN’T JESUS’ SUFFERINGS ON THE CROSS MAKE UP FOR EVERYTHING?

Some non-Catholics like to think that Jesus Christ’s passion and death made up for everything, including the penalty due to all future sins. There are no worries about something such as Purgatory, they say, because Jesus Christ paid the price for it all. This argument is false for many reasons.


First, it’s proven false by Colossians 1:24.


Colossians 1:24 “ now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church.”


This verse might be a shock to some who are not familiar with it. Paul says that he fills up, for the Church, those things that are wanting or lacking in the sufferings of Christ. Christ’s suffering was perfect and of infinite value; so what does this mean?



Ang paglilinis ng kasalanan ay sinasagawa ng grasya ni Cristo sa dalawang pamamaraan:

(1) Sa DAIGDIG
(2) Sa KABILANG BUHAY

Ito ang tinuro ng Panginoong Jesu-Cristo:


Mateo 12:32 "At ang sinomang magsalita ng isang salitang laban sa Anak ng tao, ay ipatatawad sa kaniya; datapuwa't ang sinomang magsalita laban sa Espiritu Santo, ay hindi ipatatawad sa kaniya, kahit sa sanglibutang ito, o maging SA DARATING."


Kitam, may pagpapatawad ng mga kasalanan sa daigdig na ito at meron pa sa buhay na darating. There is a forgiveness of sins or purging of sins in this life and in the life come.


Ang pagpapatawad dito sa lupa ay tinatawag ng Santa Iglesia na Sacrament of Reconciliation at ang pagpapatawad ng kasalanan sa ikalawang buhay ay tinatawag na Purgatorio.


Ang tinutukoy na nahihimlay kapag namatay ang isang tao ay ang kanyang katawang lupa na nakalibing sa cemetery. Subalit ang kanyang kaluluwa ay nagbabalik sa Dios at ito ay buhay:


Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


Ayan. ang namamatay ay ang katawang lupa subalit ang espirito ay nagbabalik sa Dios.


Ito ang mga talata na nagpapatunay na buhay pa ang kaluluwa ng mga namatay:
1 Sam 28:15-19 ANG KALULUWA NI SAMUEL AY NAKAUSAP NI HARING SAUL AT BUHAY PA. MAY ISIP AT TALINO PA RIN. HINDI TULOG.


Mateo 17:1-4 JESUS TALKED TO MOSES AND ELIJAH. Tignan mong mabuti si Elijah ay hindi tulog. Si Moises na namatay sa Moab in Deuteronomy 34:5 ay BUHAY at KAUSAP NI JESUS. Hindi naman sira ulo si Jesus para makipag-usap sa mga tulog.


Luke 16:19-31 NUNG NAMATAY SI LAZARONG PULUBI AT ANG MAYAMAN SILA AY BUHAY. ANG ISA AY NASA KALUWALHATIAN KASAMA NI ABRAHAM AT ANG MAYAMAN AY NAGHIHIRAP. SI ABRAHAM AT ANG MAYAMAN NA KAPWA PATAY NA AY NAG-UUSAP NG BUHAY NA BUHAY.



ANG BIBLIA AT ANG SANTA IGLESIA AY NAGTUTURO NG DALAWANG URI NG PAGHUHUKOM:

1. IMMEDIATE JUDGMENT

Heb 9:27 At kung paanong itinakda sa mga tao ang mamatay na minsan, at pagkatapos nito ay ang paghuhukom

SEE, RIGHT AFTER THE DEATH OF SOMEONE JUDGMENT SHALL BE GIVEN.

2. FINAL JUDGMENT

Matthew 25:31-33 Datapuwa't pagparito ng Anak ng tao na nasa kaniyang kaluwalhatian, na kasama niya ang lahat ng mga anghel, kung magkagayo'y luluklok siya sa luklukan ng kaniyang kaluwalhatian: At titipunin sa harap niya ang lahat ng mga bansa: at sila'y pagbubukdinbukdin niya na gaya ng pagbubukodbukod ng pastor sa mga tupa at sa mga kambing; At ilalagay niya ang mga tupa sa kaniyang kanan, datapuwa't sa kaliwa ang mga kambing.

KUNG ANG IMMEDIATE JUDGMENT AY JUDGMENT ON THE INDIVIDUAL ANG FINAL JUDGMENT AY GENERAL JUDGMENT TO BE GIVEN TO ALL.

THE DOCTRINE "TO JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD" IS NOT INVENTED BY US CATHOLICS BUT TAKEN FROM THE BIBLE:

1 Peter 4:5 Na sila'y magbibigay sulit sa kaniya na handang humukom sa mga buhay at sa mga patay.

Act 10:42 At sa ami'y ipinagbilin niya na magsipangaral kami sa bayan, at saksihan na siya ang itinalaga ng Dios na maging Hukom ng mga buhay at ng mga patay.

ANG PAGHUHUKOM SA MGA PATAY AY ISANG PATUTUO SA DOCTRINA NG PURGATORIO KUNG SAAN TINUTURO NG SIMBAHAN NA KAHIT SA KABILANG BUHAY ANG DIOS AY HUMUHUSGA PA RIN SA MGA KALULUWA NA MAKAPASOK SA KALANGITAN O KAYA AY DAPAT PA SILANG LINISIN BAGO TANGGAPIN SA BUHAY NA WALANG HANGGAN. ITO AY TINURO NG ATING PANGINOONG JESU-CRISTO NA NAGSABI NA MAY PAGPAPATAWAD SA KABILANG BUHAY:

Matthew 12:32 At ang sinomang magsalita ng isang salitang laban sa Anak ng tao, ay ipatatawad sa kaniya; datapuwa't ang sinomang magsalita laban sa Espiritu Santo, ay hindi ipatatawad sa kaniya, kahit sa sanglibutang ito, o maging sa darating.

KAYA NGA ANG PAGLILIGTAS AY HINDI LAMANG SA MGA NABUBUHAY SA LUPA KUNDI PATI SA MGA KALULUWA NG MGA PUMANAW NA:

Ruth 2:20 At sinabi ni Noemi sa kaniyang manugang: Pagpalain nawa siya ng Panginoon, na hindi ikinait ang kaniyang kagandahang loob sa mga buhay at sa mga patay.

ANG GRASYA NG DIOS... ANG KANYANG KAGANDAHANG-LOOB AY IBINIBIGAY HINDI LANG SA MGA BUHAY KUNDI PATI SA MGA YUMAO. AT KAHIT NA ANG RISEN LORD AY GINAWA ITO:

1 Peter 3:19 Na iyan din ang kaniyang iniyaon at nangaral sa mga espiritung nasa bilangguan,

1 Peter 4:6 Sapagka't dahil dito'y ipinangaral maging sa mga patay ang evangelio, upang sila, ayon sa mga tao sa laman ay mangahatulan, datapuwa't mangabuhay sa espiritu ayon sa Dios.

KAYA NGA PINAGDADASAL PA RIN NATIN ANG KALULUWA NG MGA NAMATAY DAHIL HUMIHINGI TAYO NG AWA NG DIOS PARA SA MGA HINDI AGAD PINAPASOK SA LANGIT DAHIL SA MGA KASALANANG HINDI PA NILA NAPAGDUSAAN SA LUPA.
 
ang haba naman ng verses mo winmail.

purged means clean, wash out, not a place.. gets??

and if there's Purgatoryo itself, then there is no HELL.. tama ba?? dahil ang sabi nyo.. ang purgatoryo ay lugar kung saan nililinis ang kasalanan.. e d lahat nasa langit na dahil malinis, wala ng matitira sa hell..
 
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