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history kaya? na-consider nyo?
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ROMAN CATHOLIC questions
- Thread starter SweetCakeSnChokolates
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ano anong manuscript ang ginamit dun sa bible na ginagamit nyo
alexandrian ba o byzantine ang family of text nito? based lang
ba sa textus receptus na pinagkuhaan ng greek version ni erasmus?
ano yung selection ng books na included dito yung set ba ng
katoliko na 27 books of NT or yung codex sinaiticus na may sheperd
of hermas at barnabas na walang epistle of peter? or yung ibang
canon na may apocalypse of peter? magbigay ka sa akin ng textual
variant na aware ka na based sa textual criticism at yung historical
plausibility sa bible na pasado sa criterion of dissimilarity? wait ko sagot mo
tsaka bakit yung 'centurion' ang nagsabing tunay na anak ng dios si hesus
habang nakapako sya? ano yung 'centurion' using the verses of the bible
kung bakit sya yung nagsabi nung ganong kataga hindi yung ilang hudyo?
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alam naman natin na lahat ng manuscript na ginagamit natin ay dumaan na sa maraming salin, hindi natin alam kung ano ang tama at ano ang may mali.dahil ang orihinal wala na, this means hindi mo rin alam kung tama ba o may mali sa ginagamit mong manuscript kung ano man yan,kaya nga kami hindi nag babase sa isang verse at isang version ng bible para sa aming paniniwala,at til now pinag aaralan paring mabuti ang tungkol dyan kaya nga nag karoon ng theology,
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para kayong mga bible scholar..gawin nating simple..saan ba galing yong unang bible na ginamit nang inyong church founder bago nya tinayo ang inyong sekta???
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@aliester, masyado mong binibigla eh, yan tuloy lumusot na lang. 
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naku po!..
wala pa naman akong kineclaim. sinasabi ko lang pano nga ako maniniwala syo e kung mali mali nga ang mga pinagsasabi mo?..
bumagsak ang credibility mo dun pa lang sa mga pinagsasabi mo na mali pala.
pano pa ako maniniwala syo?..
mahirap ba intindihin yun?..
ibig sabihin yung mga paniniwala mo walang back-up. nadala ka lang sa mga ipinasa syo. na hindi mo na inalam kung ano ang origin ng mga paniniwala mo.
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manuscript na ginagamit natin??? wow alam mo ba sinasabi mo?
kahit sa bookstore wala kang mabibiling manuscripts ng bible
nasa pag-iingat yan ng mga bible scholars na syang nag-aaral
at nagcoconduct ng archeological excavation ng mga ito lahat
yan ay written in greek, coptic, latin etc walang english
dyan pogi hindi rin yan pinamimigay o binebenta sa publiko kaya
kahit sabihin mong available na ang manuscript sa public hindi
mo maiintindihan yan
ang translation o salin ay later events na lang sa history ng canon bago pa dumating sa pagsasalin
sa ibang wika pinagpyestahan ng yan ng mga scribes while they
mass producing the greek manuscripts by hand copying kaya nga
manuscript eh.. pwede bang sabihin mo sa amin yung manuscript
na ginagamit mo kung meron man??
ano daw? manuscript na available sa publiko??
nagkaroon ng theology???? aware ka ba sa sinasabi mo? so iaaply mo
yang mga sinabi mo pakisagot yung mga tinanong ko sa iyo using
'not just one verse' and 'not just one version of bible' let me
see your answer..
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wala akong sinabing manuscript na preserved ng ebionites at wala akong sinasabing preserved na manuscript na naglalaman ng original na turo... halatang hindi ka aware sa history ng 'early christianity' at pag-aaral sa 'historical jesus' masyadong mahaba dito kung ipapaliwanag ko dahil based ito sa pag-aaral ng mga bible scholars using 200 years of historical critical method approach sa bible at textual criticism tsaka yung basis using the contemporary writings ng new testament books tulad ng didache at gospel of thomas etc..at historical narrative na hindi bias tulad ng narratives ng 1st century historian na eyewitness mismo at galilean commander ng jews during the jewish revolt(66-70ce) na si josephus.. dito sa jewish revolt ang time kung kailan sinulat ang 3gospels(mark,matthew then luke) remembering the destruction of jerusalem and its temple in 70ce by the roman armies.. at the end of the 1st century during the diaspora sinulat ang last gospel ang 'john' having the newly developed theology that jesus is god.. in the 2nd century dyan na dumami pa ang manuscripts na sinulat at nagsimulang mangolekta ang ibat ibang xtian groups ng mga manuscripts to serve as their scripture.. puro fabricated stories ang laman ng bawat gospels based sa intention at theological agenda nung writers about jesus(the 4gospels were written anonimously nilagyan lang yan ng title nung 2nd century) shortcut na lang ha.. and the result of their study is this: si hesus ay galilean jew born in nazareth na nainspire ng turo ni juan na syang nagpatuloy dito ng ipapatay sya ni herodes ito din ang sinapit ni hesus sa kamay ng mga romano, both jesus and john proclaimed the kingdom of god to reign here on earth as opposed to the kingdom of the roman empire na nananakop sa palestine during their time both of them were considered a threat to the roman government but their followers believed their movement and preserved their teaching that the kingdom of god would come here on earth to opposed and replace the roman empire.. yan ang napreserved na aral ng ebionites, but that belief did not come true so the other christian groups have to invent their own interpretation na si jesus ay mabubuhay uli(a reinterpretation of the term messiah)to accomplish what he said before..then the later groups exalted jesus as god as shown by the later writer of 'john'.. ang narrative na nababasa mo ngayon sa 4gospels ay based lang sa bias narrative at intention nung writers to exalt jesus based on their individual theology hindi based sa neutral narrative tulad ng kay josephus at iba pang contemporary writing nung time na yun.. teka sabi ko sa iyo mahaba eh to be continued bukas..
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http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/Prepare_to_meet_your_God/2nd_Video/index.htm http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/Prepare_to_meet_your_God/2nd_Video/index.htm
Lahat ng mga katanungan ninyo malalaman niyo dito sa testimony ni ANGELICA ZUMBRANO 23hrs dead came back to life.
Lahat ng mga katanungan ninyo malalaman niyo dito sa testimony ni ANGELICA ZUMBRANO 23hrs dead came back to life.
1. Pwede rin... kung nauna ay ibang relihiyon sinong relihiyon mag cacanonize ng bible?
Kung walang katoliko walang bible? ganun ba logic?
eto ang logic: Kung walang Diyos, walang bible na gamit ngayon... hindi kung walang katoliko, walang bible.
Claim nyo na relihiyon nyo ang ginamit ng Diyos para mabuo ang bible pero actually hindi naman talaga namin ginagamit yung canonize nyo kasi nagdagdag kau sa canon nyo.
2. Pwede rin... katoliko ang nag canonize pero binawasan ng mga protestante kasi hindi sila agree sa canonize ng katoliko?
(ay teka hindi lang pala protestant ang hindi nag aagree kundi halos lahat ng relihiyon dba sa added new old testament ng katoliko.)
Example:
Pedro: May isusulat akong libro.
Juan: Anung title sige babasahin ko.
Pedro: Ang title ay "Truth"
Namatay si pedro at naiwan nya yung ginawa nyang libro pagkalipas ng ilang taon nakita ito ni Judas.
Judas: i canonize ko sulat ni Pedro...
Pagkatapos i canonize ni Judas nakita ni Juan ang nawawalang libro ni Pedro.
Juan: oh ito ang sulat ni pedro bkt nasayo? i translate natin para malaman ng ibang mga tao at mabasa nila...
Judas: kundi naman dahil sa akin wala yang sulat ni pedro na gamit natin ngayon. Tsaka ako lang may karapatang magbasa nito sa kanila dahil ako ang ginamit ng Diyos at pinag katiwala sa akin ni pedro ang sulat niya (SELF CLAIM, LIAR PA) it is just an example...
Juan: nagcanonize rin kaso binawasan ng ibang part kasi alam nya sulat ni pedro at nagcocontradic yung ginawa ni Judas.
Judas: May ibang paniniwala si Juan at wala siyang karapatang mag translate hulihin siya! isang malaking kalapastanganan iyan.
Juan: namatay pero na translate niya yung ilang part ng sulat ni Pedro at may alagad siya na pinag patuloy ang translation ng sulat ni Pedro.
w/c is dati hindi pinapabasa ang sulat ni Pedro sa tao.
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so kung hindi nio gingamit ung canonize namin kaninong canonize ang ginagamit nio ngaun? <_<
here is the list of deuterocanonicals
Matt. 2:16 - Herod's decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 - slaying the holy innocents.
Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus' statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.
Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.
Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus' statement "you will know them by their fruits" follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.
Matt. 9:36 - the people were "like sheep without a shepherd" is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.
Matt. 11:25 - Jesus' description "Lord of heaven and earth" is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.
Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus' reference to the "power of death" and "gates of Hades" references Wisdom 16:13.
Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.
Matt. 24:15 - the "desolating sacrilege" Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.
Matt. 24:16 - let those "flee to the mountains" is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.
Matt. 27:43 - if He is God's Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.
Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus' description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.
Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.
Luke 1:42 - Elizabeth's declaration of Mary's blessedness above all women follows Uzziah's declaration in Judith 13:18.
Luke 1:52 - Mary's magnificat addressing the mighty falling from their thrones and replaced by lowly follows Sirach 10:14.
Luke 2:29 - Simeon's declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9.
Luke 13:29 - the Lord's description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God follows Baruch 4:37.
Luke 21:24 - Jesus' usage of "fall by the edge of the sword" follows Sirach 28:18.
Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10 - Luke's description of the two men in dazzling apparel reminds us of 2 Macc. 3:26.
John 1:3 - all things were made through Him, the Word, follows Wisdom 9:1.
John 3:13 - who has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven references Baruch 3:29.
John 4:48; Acts 5:12; 15:12; 2 Cor. 12:12 - Jesus', Luke's and Paul's usage of "signs and wonders" follows Wisdom 8:8.
John 5:18 - Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.
John 6:35-59 - Jesus' Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.
John 10:22 - the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59.
John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.
John 15:6 - branches that don't bear fruit and are cut down follows Wis. 4:5 where branches are broken off.
Acts 1:15 - Luke's reference to the 120 may be a reference to 1 Macc. 3:55 - leaders of tens / restoration of the twelve.
Acts 10:34; Rom. 2:11; Gal. 2:6 - Peter's and Paul's statement that God shows no partiality references Sirach 35:12.
Acts 17:29 - description of false gods as like gold and silver made by men follows Wisdom 13:10.
Rom 1:18-25 - Paul's teaching on the knowledge of the Creator and the ignorance and sin of idolatry follows Wis. 13:1-10.
Rom. 1:20 - specifically, God's existence being evident in nature follows Wis. 13:1.
Rom. 1:23 - the sin of worshipping mortal man, birds, animals and reptiles follows Wis. 11:15; 12:24-27; 13:10; 14:8.
Rom. 1:24-27 - this idolatry results in all kinds of sexual perversion which follows Wis. 14:12,24-27.
Rom. 4:17 - Abraham is a father of many nations follows Sirach 44:19.
Rom. 5:12 - description of death and sin entering into the world is similar to Wisdom 2:24.
Rom. 9:21 - usage of the potter and the clay, making two kinds of vessels follows Wisdom 15:7.
1 Cor. 2:16 - Paul's question, "who has known the mind of the Lord?" references Wisdom 9:13.
1 Cor. 6:12-13; 10:23-26 - warning that, while all things are good, beware of gluttony, follows Sirach 36:18 and 37:28-30.
1 Cor. 8:5-6 - Paul acknowledging many "gods" but one Lord follows Wis. 13:3.
1 Cor. 10:1 - Paul's description of our fathers being under the cloud passing through the sea refers to Wisdom 19:7.
1 Cor. 10:20 - what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God refers to Baruch 4:7.
1 Cor. 15:29 - if no expectation of resurrection, it would be foolish to be baptized on their behalf follows 2 Macc. 12:43-45.
Eph. 1:17 - Paul's prayer for a "spirit of wisdom" follows the prayer for the spirit of wisdom in Wisdom 7:7.
Eph. 6:14 - Paul describing the breastplate of righteousness is the same as Wis. 5:18. See also Isaiah 59:17 and 1 Thess. 5:8.
Eph. 6:13-17 - in fact, the whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield follows Wis. 5:17-20.
1 Tim. 6:15 - Paul's description of God as Sovereign and King of kings is from 2 Macc. 12:15; 13:4.
2 Tim. 4:8 - Paul's description of a crown of righteousness is similar to Wisdom 5:16.
Heb. 4:12 - Paul's description of God's word as a sword is similar to Wisdom 18:15.
Heb. 11:5 - Enoch being taken up is also referenced in Wis 4:10 and Sir 44:16. See also 2 Kings 2:1-13 & Sir 48:9 regarding Elijah.
Heb 11:35 - Paul teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 7:1-42.
Heb. 12:12 - the description "drooping hands" and "weak knees" comes from Sirach 25:23.
James 1:19 - let every man be quick to hear and slow to respond follows Sirach 5:11.
James 2:23 - it was reckoned to him as righteousness follows 1 Macc. 2:52 - it was reckoned to him as righteousness.
James 3:13 - James' instruction to perform works in meekness follows Sirach 3:17.
James 5:3 - describing silver which rusts and laying up treasure follows Sirach 29:10-11.
James 5:6 - condemning and killing the "righteous man" follows Wisdom 2:10-20.
1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter teaches about testing faith by purgatorial fire as described in Wisdom 3:5-6 and Sirach 2:5.
1 Peter 1:17 - God judging each one according to his deeds refers to Sirach 16:12 - God judges man according to his deeds.
2 Peter 2:7 - God's rescue of a righteous man (Lot) is also described in Wisdom 10:6.
Rev. 1:4 – the seven spirits who are before his throne is taken from Tobit 12:15 – Raphael is one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints before the Holy One.
Rev. 1:18; Matt. 16:18 - power of life over death and gates of Hades follows Wis. 16:13.
Rev. 2:12 - reference to the two-edged sword is similar to the description of God's Word in Wisdom 18:16.
Rev. 5:7 - God is described as seated on His throne, and this is the same description used in Sirach 1:8.
Rev. 8:3-4 - prayers of the saints presented to God by the hand of an angel follows Tobit 12:12,15.
Rev. 8:7 - raining of hail and fire to the earth follows Wisdom 16:22 and Sirach 39:29.
Rev. 9:3 - raining of locusts on the earth follows Wisdom 16:9.
Rev. 11:19 - the vision of the ark of the covenant (Mary) in a cloud of glory was prophesied in 2 Macc. 2:7.
Rev. 17:14 - description of God as King of kings follows 2 Macc. 13:4.
Rev. 19:1 - the cry "Hallelujah" at the coming of the new Jerusalem follows Tobit 13:18.
Rev. 19:11 - the description of the Lord on a white horse in the heavens follows 2 Macc. 3:25; 11:8.
Rev. 19:16 - description of our Lord as King of kings is taken from 2 Macc. 13:4.
Rev. 21:19 - the description of the new Jerusalem with precious stones is prophesied in Tobit 13:17.
Exodus 23:7 - do not slay the innocent and righteous - Dan. 13:53 - do not put to death an innocent and righteous person.
1 Sam. 28:7-20 – the intercessory mediation of deceased Samuel for Saul follows Sirach 46:20.
2 Kings 2:1-13 – Elijah being taken up into heaven follows Sirach 48:9.
2 Tim. 3:16 - the inspired Scripture that Paul was referring to included the deuterocanonical texts that the Protestants removed. The books Baruch, Tobit, Maccabees, Judith, Sirach, Wisdom and parts of Daniel and Esther were all included in the Septuagint that Jesus and the apostles used.
Sirach and 2 Maccabees – some Protestants argue these books are not inspired because the writers express uncertainty about their abilities. But sacred writers are often humble about their divinely inspired writings. See, for example, 1 Cor. 7:40 – Paul says he “thinks” that he has the Spirit of God.
The Protestants attempt to defend their rejection of the deuterocanonicals on the ground that the early Jews rejected them. However, the Jewish councils that rejected them (e.g., School of Javneh (also called “Jamnia” in 90 - 100 A.D.) were the same councils that rejected the entire New Testatment canon. Thus, Protestants who reject the Catholic Bible are following a Jewish council that rejected Christ and the Revelation of the New Testament.
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Share ko lang po. Tandaan po natin na si Judas ay isa sa mga disciple ni Jesus, nakalagay ang name sa Bible, binigyan ng kapangyarihan upang mag pagaling, mag pa alis ng mga demonyo, nangaral ng salita ng Diyos, pero nasaan po siya ngaun, nasa Impyerno, nagdudusa. Hindi po dahil sinasabi nila na nasa hula ang kanilang Church at naka lagay ang name sa Bible e nasa Kanila na ang katotohanan, hindi po ganun mga sir.
For example po. Sinasabi ng isang PASTOR, PARI, MINISTRO etc.. na isa sa kanila ang nagtuturo ng katotohanan tapos kakakitaan ang karamihan sa kanila na ang ginagawa ay .. mapakiapid, ni ang mga mananamba sa diosdiosan, ni ang mga mangangalunya, ni ang mga nangbababae, ni ang mga mapakiapid sa kapuwa lalake, Ni ang mga magnanakaw, ni ang mga masasakim, ni ang mga manglalasing, ni ang mga mapagtungayaw, ni ang mga manglulupig,
umiinom, nagsusugal, ,,,, nagmumura etc. At nasisiyahan pa sa pag gawa ng mga iyan Maniniwala pa po ba kayo na nasa kanila ang katotohanan at ang totoong tamang translation ng Bible ay nasa kanila? Hindi po diba..
1Co 6:9 O hindi baga ninyo nalalaman na ang mga liko ay hindi magsisipagmana ng kaharian ng Dios? Huwag kayong padaya: kahit ang mga mapakiapid, ni ang mga mananamba sa diosdiosan, ni ang mga mangangalunya, ni ang mga nangbababae, ni ang mga mapakiapid sa kapuwa lalake.
1Co 6:10 Ni ang mga magnanakaw, ni ang mga masasakim, ni ang mga manglalasing, ni ang mga mapagtungayaw, ni ang mga manglulupig, ay hindi mangagmamana ng kaharian ng Dios.
1John 1:5-10
5 At ito ang pasabing aming narinig sa kaniya at sa inyo'y aming ibinabalita, na ang Dios ay ilaw, at sa kaniya'y walang anomang kadiliman.
6 Kung sinasabi nating tayo'y may pakikisama sa kaniya at nagsisilakad tayo sa kadiliman, ay nangagbubulaan tayo, at hindi tayo nagsisigawa ng katotohanan:
7 Nguni't kung tayo'y nagsisilakad sa liwanag, na gaya niyang nasa liwanag, ay may pakikisama tayo sa isa't isa, at nililinis tayo ng dugo ni Jesus na kaniyang Anak sa lahat ng kasalanan.
8 Kung sinasabi nating tayo'y walang kasalanan, ay ating dinadaya ang ating sarili, at ang katotohanan ay wala sa atin.
9 Kung ipinahahayag natin ang ating mga kasalanan, ay tapat at banal siya na tayo'y patatawarin sa ating mga kasalanan, at tayo'y lilinisin sa lahat ng kalikuan.
10 Kung sinasabi nating tayo'y hindi nangagkasala, ay ating ginagawang sinungaling siya, at ang kaniyang salita ay wala sa atin.
For example po. Sinasabi ng isang PASTOR, PARI, MINISTRO etc.. na isa sa kanila ang nagtuturo ng katotohanan tapos kakakitaan ang karamihan sa kanila na ang ginagawa ay .. mapakiapid, ni ang mga mananamba sa diosdiosan, ni ang mga mangangalunya, ni ang mga nangbababae, ni ang mga mapakiapid sa kapuwa lalake, Ni ang mga magnanakaw, ni ang mga masasakim, ni ang mga manglalasing, ni ang mga mapagtungayaw, ni ang mga manglulupig,
umiinom, nagsusugal, ,,,, nagmumura etc. At nasisiyahan pa sa pag gawa ng mga iyan Maniniwala pa po ba kayo na nasa kanila ang katotohanan at ang totoong tamang translation ng Bible ay nasa kanila? Hindi po diba..
1Co 6:9 O hindi baga ninyo nalalaman na ang mga liko ay hindi magsisipagmana ng kaharian ng Dios? Huwag kayong padaya: kahit ang mga mapakiapid, ni ang mga mananamba sa diosdiosan, ni ang mga mangangalunya, ni ang mga nangbababae, ni ang mga mapakiapid sa kapuwa lalake.
1Co 6:10 Ni ang mga magnanakaw, ni ang mga masasakim, ni ang mga manglalasing, ni ang mga mapagtungayaw, ni ang mga manglulupig, ay hindi mangagmamana ng kaharian ng Dios.
1John 1:5-10
5 At ito ang pasabing aming narinig sa kaniya at sa inyo'y aming ibinabalita, na ang Dios ay ilaw, at sa kaniya'y walang anomang kadiliman.
6 Kung sinasabi nating tayo'y may pakikisama sa kaniya at nagsisilakad tayo sa kadiliman, ay nangagbubulaan tayo, at hindi tayo nagsisigawa ng katotohanan:
7 Nguni't kung tayo'y nagsisilakad sa liwanag, na gaya niyang nasa liwanag, ay may pakikisama tayo sa isa't isa, at nililinis tayo ng dugo ni Jesus na kaniyang Anak sa lahat ng kasalanan.
8 Kung sinasabi nating tayo'y walang kasalanan, ay ating dinadaya ang ating sarili, at ang katotohanan ay wala sa atin.
9 Kung ipinahahayag natin ang ating mga kasalanan, ay tapat at banal siya na tayo'y patatawarin sa ating mga kasalanan, at tayo'y lilinisin sa lahat ng kalikuan.
10 Kung sinasabi nating tayo'y hindi nangagkasala, ay ating ginagawang sinungaling siya, at ang kaniyang salita ay wala sa atin.
Kapag sinabi bang imahe o diosdiosan ay tumutukoy lang ba actual na imahe o rebulto..Di ba marami din mga diosdioasan na cnasamba akala lang natin hindi, para sa akin yung mga kumukuha sa atin na malaking oras kaysa sa tunay na pagsamba sa Dios. Mga halimbawa addicted games , always movie marathon, alcoholic , drugs at iba........
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- Messages
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- Messages
- 774
- Reaction score
- 33
- Points
- 88
Meron po, bigyan mo po ako ng talata sa Bibliya na sinabi ni Jesus na gawan siya ng rebulto bilang pag alaala sa kaniya or ipang sangguni po sa kaniya.
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