To Atheists: What if there is a real one God?

[s0nicfl0od]

To answer this may be some should know the Doctrine of Election and Predestination,
All humanity deserves hell, but God is Gracious and elected some and predestined to be with Him forever. Some says it's unfair, you do not need FAIR, you need mercy!

 

[Maekeruu]

Sasabihin ko lang.

"Napakahirap mong hanapin, dito lang pala kita makikita, marami ng mga baliw na nagpapanggap na nakilala ka na nila."

 

[machine1983]

I am an Atheist but I believe that there is one God.

 

[rofin]

I am an Atheist but I believe that there is one God.

Please elaborate your definition of atheist. Thanks, nalito ako dun ah

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To answer this may be some should know the Doctrine of Election and Predestination,
All humanity deserves hell, but God is Gracious and elected some and predestined to be with Him forever. Some says it's unfair, you do not need FAIR, you need mercy!

Hmm, mukhang iba ito dito sa sinasabi sa scriptures;
1 Timothy 2:1-4 says all men not some

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers,
intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men ;
for kings, and for all that are in authority ; that we may lead a quiet
and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour ;
who will haveall men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge
of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count
slackness ; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any
should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[poorpost]

Oh so you're real?
Ok, where's the way to hell so I can sell some ice cream, it's maybe hot in there.

 

[s0nicfl0od]

Please elaborate your definition of atheist. Thanks, nalito ako dun ah

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Hmm, mukhang iba ito dito sa sinasabi sa scriptures;
1 Timothy 2:1-4 says all men not some

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers,
intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men ;
for kings, and for all that are in authority ; that we may lead a quiet
and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour ;
who will haveall men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge
of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count
slackness ; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any
should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Lets see the context of 2 Peter 3:9 simulan natin mula verse 1 to 9

First, who is the "you" that God is patient towards, not willing that they perish, but reach repentance?

2Pe 3:1-9
(1) This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder,
(2) that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles,
(3) knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.
(4) They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation."
(5) For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God,
(6) and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
(7) But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
(8) But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(9) The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

The answer is quickly found: Peter is writing to "the beloved", whom he is now writing his second letter to. So if he's written two letters to them, and this letter is "2nd Peter", that means "1st Peter" is also written to this same group. So let's go to 1st Peter and see who the recipient of Peter's letter is:

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

So both 1st and 2nd Peter are written to "the elect" or "God's elect", "the beloved" (they are loved by God). So that means when we get to 2nd Peter, chapter 3, verse 9, the "you" that God is patient towards is "the beloved", the "elect". God is patient toward them, not willing that any perish, but all to reach to repentance.

Second: what is the passage in 2 Peter chapter 3 about? Salvation mainly, as many would have us believe? Or something else?

It is clear that the passage is about Christ's return:

2Pe 3:2-4
(2) that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles,
(3) knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.
(4) They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation."
..
2Pe 3:8-10
(8) But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(9) The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
(10) But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

What is Peter's argument? He is writing to give God's elect (all Christians) confidence and assurance and comfort that Christ will in fact return, and to not let the scoffers cause dismay. He says God's timing is not the same as man's timing (To Him, a day is like a thousand years, etc). Why is God delaying Christ's return? God is patiently waiting for all of his elect to reach repentance (He is not willing that any perish, but that all reach repentance). In other words, when the last sheep is found and saved, the curtain will close, and Christ will return. That's why Christ doesn't return sooner. Christ cannot return until all of God's elect are saved, lest they are not saved! And God is not willing that they perish, hence he must delay Christ's return.

There are many elect of God that are not yet born into this world, and in time, God will save through the gospel message and bring them to Christ, because he is not willing that they perish. He will save them. That's why Christ's return is delayed. This should motivate us to evangelize with fervor!

The context. Lets read the passage:

1 Timothy 2:1-4 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Who are the "all people" of verse 1? I believe the "all people" of verse 1 are the same "all people" of verse 4, as the subject matter does not change in any way at all in the intervening verses.

When Paul wrote "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people.." was he asking Timothy to get the equivalent of the local phone book and starting with the alphas and going all the way through to the omegas (the Greek alphabet) make supplication, pray, intercede and make thanksgiving for each individual in the city... or more than that, the whole world?

I don't think so. Why do I say this? Because Paul qualifies verse 1 with verse 2 when he speaks of "kings" (kings are types of people) and "those in high positions" (again "those in high positions" are types of people).

Why should we pray for them?

One of the reasons we should pray for them is because these people (kings and those in high positions of authority) make decisions which affect society at large. If these people have their eyes opened, they will not be persecutors of Christians but will enact laws that will actually restrain sin so "that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way." So one of the reasons to pray for them is because good government can mean a measure of peace in a society, and it is a lot easier to spread the Gospel when there is no civil unrest.

The passage also points us to another reason to pray, namely that God desires all (all who?) .. all types of people.. including these influential people with authority in society.. to be saved.

His message to Timothy was this: Do not just pray for the peasants, the farmers and the uneducated (the people who seem to be coming to Christ in great numbers right now), but remember to pray for kings and the very rulers in society who are at this moment persecuting Christians. Make prayer of this kind a priority - do it "first of all" - pray for these people Timothy - make sure the Church is praying for these people - because God desires all kinds of people - even kings (or Emperors like Caesar) and the elete in society - people of every kind, to be saved.

We must remember that the earliest Christians were almost all from the lower class of society, so this would be BIG news to them.

 

[rofin]

The passage also points us to another reason to pray, namely that God desires all (all who?) .. all types of people.. including these influential people with authority in society.. to be saved.

His message to Timothy was this: Do not just pray for the peasants, the farmers and the uneducated (the people who seem to be coming to Christ in great numbers right now), but remember to pray for kings and the very rulers in society who are at this moment persecuting Christians. Make prayer of this kind a priority - do it "first of all" - pray for these people Timothy - make sure the Church is praying for these people - because God desires all kinds of people - even kings (or Emperors like Caesar) and the elete in society - people of every kind, to be saved.

We must remember that the earliest Christians were almost all from the lower class of society, so this would be BIG news to them.

Thanks for the explanation that you are believing, it is actually convincing but I find it one sided since in the context you really did explained it but wait do you think God has favoritism because of what you have said regarding the word "elect" now how about the non-Christian may I just ask so I can know where you are coming at?

Regarding the second reading about Timothy, you already said it and to me it is basically the same thing that God wants ALL to be saved that is why we are saved to do good works, now what work? It is the great commission to us by our Lord Jesus to go out in the world to make disciple and spread the gospel.

 

[s0nicfl0od]

In reply to your query:

but wait do you think God has favoritism because of what you have said regarding the word "elect"

God is impartial, not just in the Old Testament, but the New Testament.

Romans 2:11. God shows no partiality.

Ephesians 6:9. Masters, do the same to them and stop your threatening knowing that he who is their master and yours is in heaven and there is no partiality with him.

Colossians 3:25. The wrong doer will be repaid back for his wrong doing that he has done. There is no partiality with God.

the Greek word use for impartiality or no partiality is prosopaulapsia — a receiving of face,
literally — a receiving of face means that God does not receive or regard a person’s appearance. He does not base his approval or blessings on considerations that are irrelevant to the choice he is making, like a person’s face. So we need to be really careful. What does he mean by partiality and impartiality?

Illustration?

If you are a judge in a court-room and you must decide a murder trial, judges are supposed to be impartial. In fact, the picture of justice has a woman blindfolded. You are going to say: What in the world does that mean? Impartiality does not demand that the guilty defendant gets to go free because everyone else is leaving the courtroom and walking out and you have got to treat everybody the same. And so the criminal who has been convicted and found to be guilty, he gets to go free because we can’t be impartial here. We have got to treat everybody the same and he gets to go free because everybody else is going free. Well, nobody thinks impartiality means that. Impartiality demands that the judge not base his verdict on irrelevant considerations like race or wealth or intelligence or reputation in the community. If the judge favors his own race or wealth, wealthy people or the intelligent people or the famous people, he would be partial and not impartial and he would be a lousy judge and unworthy to be judged.

So impartiality does not mean treating everyone the same. It means basing your treatment of others on the right kind of considerations. Did the defendant actually kill the man? If he did, then he goes to jail.

Now unto GOD:

God’s choosing to save people and he never, never bases his choice, whom to save, on the basis of irrelevant considerations. He never says: I will choose Asians to save, not Hispanics. He never says: I will choose wealthy people to save, not the poor. I will choose the educated to save, not the uneducated. Or even I will choose the good and not the bad. God simply doesn’t base his choices on those kinds of considerations. If he did, then he would be guilty of being partial and he is not partial. That is the point of:

1 Corinthians 1:26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards,[a] not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth.

,
isn’t it?
God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise and God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong. God chose what is low and despised in the world even things that are not to bring to nothing things that are so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.

So God’s choice is based on his own hidden wisdom.

Ephesians 1:11. God works all things according to the counsel of his will, the counsel of his will.

He does not base his choices in irrelevant considerations. He is free to choose whomever he will and his reasons are never owing to our goodness.
How could they be?
We are all

I mean ALL

sinners deserving of death. Yet he chooses freely to save some. And the very meaning of grace in Romans 11:5,

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

the very meaning of grace is that the reason he chooses us is not in ourselves. It is not in our own virtue or our own sinfulness. It is in his counsel and he is wise in all that he does because he is guided by the highest considerations.
And what is that consideration?
Well, it was hinted at in that text we reads from 1 Corinthians one. What choices will humble sinful men? What choices will keep men from boasting in themselves? And what choices will bring people to praise the glory of the grace of God?

God is Sovereign!

Now about this:

Regarding the second reading about Timothy, you already said it and to me it is basically the same thing that God wants ALL to be saved that is why we are saved to do good works, now what work? It is the great commission to us by our Lord Jesus to go out in the world to make disciple and spread the gospel.

Yes God wants ALL (Again the word "ALL" there are the elect) and those elect are saved to do good works not good works comes first to be saved.

Great Commission?

Preach the gospel in all of the World. Because you don't know who are the elect. That is why we preach in season and out of season brother.

 

[TheTruth07]

According to Michio Kaku's belief

Source: https://bigthink.com/robby-berman/michio-kaku-believes-in-god-if-not-that-god

Co-founder of string field theory and physicist Michio Kaku made waves last year — or at least seemed to — when it was reported that he’d proven the existence of God. The Geophilosophical Association of Anthropological and Cultural Studies quoted Kaku as saying, "I have concluded that we are in a world made by rules created by an intelligence. To me, it is clear that we exist in a plan which is governed by rules that were created, shaped by a universal intelligence and not by chance."

Big bang theory has left the room.

 

[rofin]

In reply to your query:



God is impartial, not just in the Old Testament, but the New Testament.




the Greek word use for impartiality or no partiality is prosopaulapsia — a receiving of face,
literally — a receiving of face means that God does not receive or regard a person’s appearance. He does not base his approval or blessings on considerations that are irrelevant to the choice he is making, like a person’s face. So we need to be really careful. What does he mean by partiality and impartiality?

Now unto GOD:

God’s choosing to save people and he never, never bases his choice, whom to save, on the basis of irrelevant considerations. He never says: I will choose Asians to save, not Hispanics. He never says: I will choose wealthy people to save, not the poor. I will choose the educated to save, not the uneducated. Or even I will choose the good and not the bad. God simply doesn’t base his choices on those kinds of considerations. If he did, then he would be guilty of being partial and he is not partial. That is the point of:
,
isn’t it?
God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise and God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong. God chose what is low and despised in the world even things that are not to bring to nothing things that are so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.

So God’s choice is based on his own hidden wisdom.

He does not base his choices in irrelevant considerations. He is free to choose whomever he will and his reasons are never owing to our goodness.
How could they be?
We are all sinners deserving of death. Yet he chooses freely to save some. And the very meaning of grace in Romans 11:5, the very meaning of grace is that the reason he chooses us is not in ourselves. It is not in our own virtue or our own sinfulness. It is in his counsel and he is wise in all that he does because he is guided by the highest considerations.
And what is that consideration?
Well, it was hinted at in that text we reads from 1 Corinthians one. What choices will humble sinful men? What choices will keep men from boasting in themselves? And what choices will bring people to praise the glory of the grace of God?

God is Sovereign!

Now about this:

Yes God wants ALL (Again the word "ALL" there are the elect) and those elect are saved to do good works not good works comes first to be saved.

Great Commission?

Preach the gospel in all of the World. Because you don't know who are the elect. That is why we preach in season and out of season brother.

@s0nicfl0od

Bro hindi ba contradicting yung statements mo sa interpretation mo regarding sa verse na may word "ELECT" sinasabi mo na si God may elect na ililigtas? At syempre kabaligtaran nun eh meron naman hindi maliligtas? Naguluhan ako kasi sabi mo impartial sya which is true eh bakit naman ang interpretation mo ay God wants ALL to be saved then yung ALL mo pertaining only sa elect? Contradicting di ba? Sasabit ngayon ang interpretasyon mo sa ROMANS 1:16 wherein ang sabi nya ay ganito

“For I am not ashamed of the GOSPEL of Christ: FOR IT is the POWER OF God UNTO salvation to EVERYONE that BELIEVES; to the Jew first, and ALSO to the Greek.

So pansin mo sinama na yung Greek which is hindi God`s ELECT yan kasi ang God`s ELECT or BELOVED na sinasabi mo ang mga ISRAELITES or JEWs. And then yung
John 3:16 ang sabi whosoever believes in shall not perish but have everlasting life meaning bro God wants ALL not just the ELECT. I believe you are referring to the doctrine of men which is CALVINISM and I believe it is not a sound doctrine and not grounded on whole truth of the word of God.

 

[jeberns]

The universe would never exist without the creator. Ganito. Pag sa kwarto mo may pumasok at naglagay ng 3d solar system sa taas ng kama mo. At di mo alam na ang kapatid mo ay gumawa nun. Pag pasok mo sa kwarto, ma amaze ka kasi may solar system sa itaas ng kama mo. Nagtatanong ka sa kapatid mo. "Tol? , ang ganda naman nyan! Sino may gawa nyan?

at sasabihin ng kapatid mo na "Wala! nagulat lang ako na meron yan dyan!

Maniniwala ka ba sa sagot sa kapatid mo? syempre hindi diba?

Wag mo e underestimate ang Panginoon! Wag mong ipagsiksikan sa sarili mo na ma reach mo sya kasi tao lang tayo' We can't over power Him. Maybe we have lots of Questions out there but always remember that He is there always for us no matter what!

Looking for evidence? Heto, try to figure out these persons: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They were born in different places and different times. But, how come nag coincide yung mga writings nila kay Jesus Christ?

Share lang po

 

[s0nicfl0od]

@s0nicfl0od

Bro hindi ba contradicting yung statements mo sa interpretation mo regarding sa verse na may word "ELECT" sinasabi mo na si God may elect na ililigtas? At syempre kabaligtaran nun eh meron naman hindi maliligtas? Naguluhan ako kasi sabi mo impartial sya which is true eh bakit naman ang interpretation mo ay God wants ALL to be saved then yung ALL mo pertaining only sa elect? Contradicting di ba? Sasabit ngayon ang interpretasyon mo sa ROMANS 1:16 wherein ang sabi nya ay ganito

“For I am not ashamed of the GOSPEL of Christ: FOR IT is the POWER OF God UNTO salvation to EVERYONE that BELIEVES; to the Jew first, and ALSO to the Greek.

So pansin mo sinama na yung Greek which is hindi God`s ELECT yan kasi ang God`s ELECT or BELOVED na sinasabi mo ang mga ISRAELITES or JEWs. And then yung
John 3:16 ang sabi whosoever believes in shall not perish but have everlasting life meaning bro God wants ALL not just the ELECT. I believe you are referring to the doctrine of men which is CALVINISM and I believe it is not a sound doctrine and not grounded on whole truth of the word of God.

@rofin

Hindi siya contradicting I only answer your question

do you think God has favoritism

and present verses that God doesn't show partiality and you reconcile John 3:16 and Romans 1:16 which is sabi mo nga naguguluhan ka.

This doctrine is not a Doctrine of Man which I also despised at hindi ko matangap noon. We'll may mga verses naman na directly referring to the ELECT.

Let's start John 3:16 A beautiful verse coming from the Bible, it is so comforting, a satisfaction for the hungry soul!

The verse does not say that unbelievers have the ability of their own sinful free will, to receive Christ. Since God is the one who grants that we believe,

Philippians 1:29 King James Version (KJV)
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

grants us repentance,

2 Timothy 2:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

and works belief in us,

John 6:28-29 King James Version (KJV)
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

then we realize that the "whosoever" are those that God has granted the act of believing. Some may not like this explanation, but it is consistent with Scripture.

Consider Acts 13:48 which says,

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Notice that God is the one who appoints people to eternal life and, according to the text, this is why they believe.
Also let's not forget 2 Thess. 2:13 which says,

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

It is God who chooses us for salvation and appoints us to eternal life. That is why they believe.
Therefore, whosoever believes, has eternal life.

Furthermore, John 3:16 does not have the Greek word for "whosoever." That Greek word is 'hos.'
It is not there - though it does appear in other verses in the New Testament.
What the text actually says in the Greek in John 3:16 is, 'pas ho pistuon.'
This is literally translated as 'all the believing one."

Technically speaking, John 3:16 does give the opportunity for everyone to receive Christ. However, the unbelievers will act in a manner consistent with their sinful natures and reject Christ.
The Bible tells us that no one can come to the Lord Jesus unless it is been granted him by the Father,

John 6:65 King James Version (KJV)
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Also we know that God is one who grants repentance (2 Timothy 2:25) and grants that people believe (Phil. 1:29). We do not know the means by which God chooses who gets saved, but he does choose.

Ephesians 1:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

But, we can trust that God uses us, our prayers, and our preaching in his divine and sovereign plan to bring into the kingdom of God those whom he has chosen (2 Thess. 2:13).
God has ordained from all eternity that we pray in order to bring about his will. We have not been granted the information we need to understand how it all works. As Christians, we are to believe that whosoever receives Christ does so because of the work of God. Furthermore, we are to preach the gospel to everyone because it is the means by which God draws out of the world his elect.

Those who believe "all will be saved" falls in ancient heretical view of "Christian Universalism" or the doctrine of universal reconciliation.

and how do we reconcile 144,000 saved in the last days versus all will be saved as I believe you believe in Christian Universalism view?

Hope this verses may find satisfaction on your questions.

Thank you.

God Bless!

 

[rofin]

The verse does not say that unbelievers have the ability of their own sinful free will, to receive Christ. Since God is the one who grants that we believe,

Philippians 1:29 King James Version (KJV)
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

What was given in the verse you presented? I don`t think that it is the ability to receive Christ but to suffer for his sake. Paul was saying here is that IF you are a child of God and and a joint heir with Jesus, then SUFFERING is part of God plan for us, so that he may reward us in the world to come. Also we see that it is GIVEN to us as Christians not ONLY to believe upon Our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, but also to SUFFER for his name sake.

grants us repentance,
2 Timothy 2:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

This means that those who oppose the truth or the gospel when they finally acknowledge it then God will allow them repentance or will acknowledge or forgive them from rejecting it the first time so to speak.

and works belief in us,
John 6:28-29 King James Version (KJV)
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I don`t get this, why did you use that verse saying "works belief in us" while if you
read John 6:26, 27, where Jesus exposing those who are having the WRONG motive for seeking and following Jesus.
“Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, You seek me, NOT because you saw the miracles, but because you did EAT of the loaves, and were FILLED.

27. Labor NOT for the MEAT which perishes, but for that meat which ENDURES unto EVERLASTING LIFE, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him (the HIM here can be speaking of Jesus, but the context tells me that the Him here is speaking of ALL BELIEVERS who are truly seeking that meat which shall ENDURE unto ETERNAL LIFE) has God the Father SEALED.”

The meat that ENDURES unto receiving our reward of eternal life in the world to come is BELIEVING the words of Jesus.

Please read again John 6:28, 29 where those seeking Jesus for the WRONG reason asked Jesus what they should DO in order to DO the WORKS of God.
“Then said they unto him, What shall we DO, that (or so that) we might work the works of God?
29. Jesus answered and said unto them, THIS IS the work of God, that you BELIEVE on him whom he has sent.”

In other words, Jesus is saying those who BELIEVE that Jesus is the CHRIST, the ANOINTED ONE who was SENT by the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God the Father are doing the WORK that Almighty God DESIRES them to DO.

then we realize that the "whosoever" are those that God has granted the act of believing. Some may not like this explanation, but it is consistent with Scripture.

Actually I find it man made because you are cherry picking some verse and use it to what your denomination teaches.

Consider Acts 13:48 which says,
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

The verse teaches us that during the mission of Paul and Barnabas in the places where Acts 13 happened many believed what they preached mostly of gentiles and of course there are also that don`t believe on what they preached mostly Jews which is about the savior Jesus because they cannot acknowledge Jesus as their messiah for some reason(I know you already knew that). But if you read the previous verses say Acts 13:39 it teaches us that through him(Jesus) ALL that believe are justified from all things meaning the forgiveness of sins. I therefore concluded the ALL that the books of ACTS 13:39 is referring to anyone who believe which is in contrast to the verse you presented that God ordained ALL human not just the elects but ALL whosoever believes to have eternal life or be saved by which is also consistent or agrees in the light of the whole word of God.

Notice that God is the one who appoints people to eternal life and, according to the text, this is why they believe.

It does not say in that verse that is an assumption only of what you have been taught. According to the context they believed because it was preached to them it does not say God gave them an act to believe but they chose to believe Paul and Barnabas it does have an element of exercising the so called free will.

But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

It is God who chooses us for salvation and appoints us to eternal life. That is why they believe.
Therefore, whosoever believes, has eternal life.

Not so, you fail to see is that what God chose from the beginning was the WAY of HOW mankind would be saved. Let us read this verse again with the emphasis on other words.

2 Thessalonians 2:13.

“But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation THROUGH sanctification of the Spirit and BELIEF of the TRUTH:”

Let us read this verse left in its CONTEXT to learn its TRUE meaning.
Please read 2 Thessalonians 2:8-15.

“And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (The context involves the judgment of the wicked at the coming of Jesus)

9. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; BECAUSE they RECEIVED NOT the love of the truth, THAT (Or so that, or in order that) they might be SAVED. (In other words, God did NOT CHOOSE for certain select individual people to be lost from before the world began. Rather God chose salvation to be IN his Son and ALSO chose that WHOSOEVER of any person who makes their OWN CHOICE to receive the truth might be saved. So then, it is BECAUSE these antichrist people in the last days will reject the TRUTH so that they might be saved. And thus, God must honor his word to destroy the wicked)

11. And FOR THIS CAUSE (Of THEM refusing to receive the TRUTH of the gospel of Jesus Christ) God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (Keep in mind that this strong delusion to continue to believe the lie that they have already made their own choice to believe is speaking of the exact moment in time when the RAPTURE of the faithful believers takes place. Remember Revelation 22:11,12 “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.” Time will be frozen for a twinkling of an eye and whatever a person believes at that precise moment in time will determine if they are found faithful to be raptured or not. And thus the wicked will remain wicked at that moment of the rapture of the church)

12. That they all might be damned who believed NOT the TRUTH but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13. BUT we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14. Whereunto he CALLED you BY our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Because you have believed the TRUTH to sanctify and purify yourselves from all unrighteousness)

15. THEREFORE, brethren, STAND FAST, and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle (To continue to PURIFY yourselves from all unrighteousness even as our Lord is pure).”

So what God chose before the foundation of the world was the shedding of the blood of an INNOCENT man to redeem mankind back to himself. But that was not ALL that God chose. God ALSO chose to save ONLY those of mankind who BELIEVE in his so great a salvation of an INNOCENT man laying down his own life of his own free will to suffer and die the cruel death on the cross to provide salvation for them to be delivered from the bondage of sin. And MOREOVER, God also chose that the salvation of mankind to be BY the foolishness of PREACHING this gospel message of God’s Messiah dying on the cross for the sins of the world.

Furthermore, John 3:16 does not have the Greek word for "whosoever." That Greek word is 'hos.'
It is not there - though it does appear in other verses in the New Testament.
What the text actually says in the Greek in John 3:16 is, 'pas ho pistuon.'
This is literally translated as 'all the believing one."

Technically speaking, John 3:16 does give the opportunity for everyone to receive Christ. However, the unbelievers will act in a manner consistent with their sinful natures and reject Christ.

Yes ALL the believing one. See the action word it us who has the power to believe or not to believe. It does not say in John 3:16 For God so loved some elect but he say the world in contrast with and that AGREES in the light of the whole word of God;

Here is 1 John 2:2.

“And he is the propitiation for our sins (or Jesus is the ATONEMENT for our sins): and NOT for ours ONLY, BUT ALSO for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.”

Ephesians 1:4-5 King James Version (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Another verse that how did God chose us or predestined us or desires us all human to be saved by what? or exactly How? or precisely who? It is all about believing in Jesus again believing meaning it is our job to obey and believe or trust in the truth and the truth is his word through his Son in contrast again with John 3:16 and so many other verses.

We have not been granted the information we need to understand how it all works.

Yes because the doctrine you are clinging to is from men not from God. But God already revealed to us how can we be saved and his will is ALL human to come to the truth in his son Jesus. He did not say some but he desires ALL.

we are to believe that whosoever receives Christ does so because of the work of God.

True because of the verse 1 Corinthians 3:6, someone planted someone watered but God gave the increase, this is through the foolishness of preaching and those who believe I mean anyone who believes and continues to believe will be saved.

Those who believe "all will be saved" falls in ancient heretical view of "Christian Universalism" or the doctrine of universal reconciliation.

I did not say ALL WILL BE SAVED but God wants ALL TO BE saved meaning "the one believing" thus John 3:16 say so.

and how do we reconcile 144,000 saved in the last days versus all will be saved as I believe you believe in Christian Universalism view?

No idea about Christian Universalism view. I just read the bible as it is with no denominational literature background or interpretation. Now regarding the 144,000 as I have read in the bible see summary because I coudn`t explain it a little further since I`m still reading about it, below are so far what I have read in Revelation 14:1-5 and Revelation 7:2-8 pertaining to the future yet to come.

1. The 144,000 are VIRGINS and they are MALES.
2. They are the FIRSTFRUITS unto God and Jesus.
3. They are without fault.
4. They FOLLOW Jesus.
5. And the 144,000 are ALL Jews for the 12 tribes of Israel who WILL BE sealed in their foreheads right before the wrath of God is poured out by Jesus at his coming.

I believe there are gentiles that are saved as ISAIAH 56 1-8 stating that God will allow them or rename them the strangers(gentiles) to be his sons and daughter so long as they keep believing in the Lord and love the Lord and available to ALL NATIONS.
So your interpretation about God choosing only some to be saved is not one of his attributes. You are talking about another gospel , another God, another Jesus. Please be not deceived.

 

[Hitsugaya]

simple lang naman.. if namatay ka then God don't really exist. walang mawawala sayo
pero kapag namatay ka and God really exist. hindi lang ang buhay mo dito ang mawawala pati ang buhay mo sa walang hanggan.

they say not enough evidence ?? mali sila!! napakaraming evidence na nagpapatunay na ang Diyos ay totoo

SCIENCE CAN PROVE IT..

 

[s0nicfl0od]

What was given in the verse you presented? I don`t think that it is the ability to receive Christ but to suffer for his sake. Paul was saying here is that IF you are a child of God and and a joint heir with Jesus, then SUFFERING is part of God plan for us, so that he may reward us in the world to come. Also we see that it is GIVEN to us as Christians not ONLY to believe upon Our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, but also to SUFFER for his name sake.



This means that those who oppose the truth or the gospel when they finally acknowledge it then God will allow them repentance or will acknowledge or forgive them from rejecting it the first time so to speak.



I don`t get this, why did you use that verse saying "works belief in us" while if you
read John 6:26, 27, where Jesus exposing those who are having the WRONG motive for seeking and following Jesus.
“Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, You seek me, NOT because you saw the miracles, but because you did EAT of the loaves, and were FILLED.

27. Labor NOT for the MEAT which perishes, but for that meat which ENDURES unto EVERLASTING LIFE, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him (the HIM here can be speaking of Jesus, but the context tells me that the Him here is speaking of ALL BELIEVERS who are truly seeking that meat which shall ENDURE unto ETERNAL LIFE) has God the Father SEALED.”

The meat that ENDURES unto receiving our reward of eternal life in the world to come is BELIEVING the words of Jesus.

Please read again John 6:28, 29 where those seeking Jesus for the WRONG reason asked Jesus what they should DO in order to DO the WORKS of God.
“Then said they unto him, What shall we DO, that (or so that) we might work the works of God?
29. Jesus answered and said unto them, THIS IS the work of God, that you BELIEVE on him whom he has sent.”

In other words, Jesus is saying those who BELIEVE that Jesus is the CHRIST, the ANOINTED ONE who was SENT by the ONE TRUE and ONLY ALMIGHTY God the Father are doing the WORK that Almighty God DESIRES them to DO.



Actually I find it man made because you are cherry picking some verse and use it to what your denomination teaches.



The verse teaches us that during the mission of Paul and Barnabas in the places where Acts 13 happened many believed what they preached mostly of gentiles and of course there are also that don`t believe on what they preached mostly Jews which is about the savior Jesus because they cannot acknowledge Jesus as their messiah for some reason(I know you already knew that). But if you read the previous verses say Acts 13:39 it teaches us that through him(Jesus) ALL that believe are justified from all things meaning the forgiveness of sins. I therefore concluded the ALL that the books of ACTS 13:39 is referring to anyone who believe which is in contrast to the verse you presented that God ordained ALL human not just the elects but ALL whosoever believes to have eternal life or be saved by which is also consistent or agrees in the light of the whole word of God.



It does not say in that verse that is an assumption only of what you have been taught. According to the context they believed because it was preached to them it does not say God gave them an act to believe but they chose to believe Paul and Barnabas it does have an element of exercising the so called free will.



Not so, you fail to see is that what God chose from the beginning was the WAY of HOW mankind would be saved. Let us read this verse again with the emphasis on other words.

2 Thessalonians 2:13.

“But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation THROUGH sanctification of the Spirit and BELIEF of the TRUTH:”

Let us read this verse left in its CONTEXT to learn its TRUE meaning.
Please read 2 Thessalonians 2:8-15.

“And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (The context involves the judgment of the wicked at the coming of Jesus)

9. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; BECAUSE they RECEIVED NOT the love of the truth, THAT (Or so that, or in order that) they might be SAVED. (In other words, God did NOT CHOOSE for certain select individual people to be lost from before the world began. Rather God chose salvation to be IN his Son and ALSO chose that WHOSOEVER of any person who makes their OWN CHOICE to receive the truth might be saved. So then, it is BECAUSE these antichrist people in the last days will reject the TRUTH so that they might be saved. And thus, God must honor his word to destroy the wicked)

11. And FOR THIS CAUSE (Of THEM refusing to receive the TRUTH of the gospel of Jesus Christ) God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (Keep in mind that this strong delusion to continue to believe the lie that they have already made their own choice to believe is speaking of the exact moment in time when the RAPTURE of the faithful believers takes place. Remember Revelation 22:11,12 “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.” Time will be frozen for a twinkling of an eye and whatever a person believes at that precise moment in time will determine if they are found faithful to be raptured or not. And thus the wicked will remain wicked at that moment of the rapture of the church)

12. That they all might be damned who believed NOT the TRUTH but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13. BUT we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14. Whereunto he CALLED you BY our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Because you have believed the TRUTH to sanctify and purify yourselves from all unrighteousness)

15. THEREFORE, brethren, STAND FAST, and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle (To continue to PURIFY yourselves from all unrighteousness even as our Lord is pure).”

So what God chose before the foundation of the world was the shedding of the blood of an INNOCENT man to redeem mankind back to himself. But that was not ALL that God chose. God ALSO chose to save ONLY those of mankind who BELIEVE in his so great a salvation of an INNOCENT man laying down his own life of his own free will to suffer and die the cruel death on the cross to provide salvation for them to be delivered from the bondage of sin. And MOREOVER, God also chose that the salvation of mankind to be BY the foolishness of PREACHING this gospel message of God’s Messiah dying on the cross for the sins of the world.



Yes ALL the believing one. See the action word it us who has the power to believe or not to believe. It does not say in John 3:16 For God so loved some elect but he say the world in contrast with and that AGREES in the light of the whole word of God;

Here is 1 John 2:2.

“And he is the propitiation for our sins (or Jesus is the ATONEMENT for our sins): and NOT for ours ONLY, BUT ALSO for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.”


Another verse that how did God chose us or predestined us or desires us all human to be saved by what? or exactly How? or precisely who? It is all about believing in Jesus again believing meaning it is our job to obey and believe or trust in the truth and the truth is his word through his Son in contrast again with John 3:16 and so many other verses.


Yes because the doctrine you are clinging to is from men not from God. But God already revealed to us how can we be saved and his will is ALL human to come to the truth in his son Jesus. He did not say some but he desires ALL.


True because of the verse 1 Corinthians 3:6, someone planted someone watered but God gave the increase, this is through the foolishness of preaching and those who believe I mean anyone who believes and continues to believe will be saved.


I did not say ALL WILL BE SAVED but God wants ALL TO BE saved meaning "the one believing" thus John 3:16 say so.

No idea about Christian Universalism view. I just read the bible as it is with no denominational literature background or interpretation. Now regarding the 144,000 as I have read in the bible see summary because I coudn`t explain it a little further since I`m still reading about it, below are so far what I have read in Revelation 14:1-5 and Revelation 7:2-8 pertaining to the future yet to come.

1. The 144,000 are VIRGINS and they are MALES.
2. They are the FIRSTFRUITS unto God and Jesus.
3. They are without fault.
4. They FOLLOW Jesus.
5. And the 144,000 are ALL Jews for the 12 tribes of Israel who WILL BE sealed in their foreheads right before the wrath of God is poured out by Jesus at his coming.

I believe there are gentiles that are saved as ISAIAH 56 1-8 stating that God will allow them or rename them the strangers(gentiles) to be his sons and daughter so long as they keep believing in the Lord and love the Lord and available to ALL NATIONS.
So your interpretation about God choosing only some to be saved is not one of his attributes. You are talking about another gospel , another God, another Jesus. Please be not deceived.

Okay that was your belief,,, i respect that and I believe I have explained my best effort here at kita naman,,, Medyo misrepresented lang mga presentation. May mga verses naman na ang linaw linaw that God Elects in the beginning pero nababaluktot lang ng sariling mga panilwanag na napupunta sa punto na ang pinaniniwalaan ko na parang napupunta sa GOD SELECTS, mag kaiba kasi ang ELECT sa SELECT,, anyway thank you sa conversation actually medyo out of topic sa thread. I rest my case,,,

GOD is SOVEREIGN! They will not understand His Sovereignty unless ELECTED!

 

[pROAddictus]

That question though:
[h=2]What if there is a real one God?[/h]There is none.

 

[aman0ma]

Meron po Diyos na Buhay, kung kung alam mong pwede kang mamatay at ang kaluluwa mo ay babalik sa Diyos na tunay, eh dapat maniwala kang mang Diyos na tunay <3
Ecclesiastes 12:7
and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

bahala ka kung maging athiest ka kanya kanya tayo ng kaligtasan,kita kits sa kamatayan, kaya kapag buhay ka pa gumawa ka ng mabuti
bubuhayin yung naging tapat sa Dios, di ka pinipilit kung maging athiest ka kapag namatay ka sa Dios pa rin ang huling paghuhukom.

 

[poorpost]

What if there's real one God?
He won't give a s*** about us. He's not your ideal god that has good plans for us. We don't need God. God don't need us.

 

[noobmaster96]

If there is a real God. Then they'll get the shock of their lives.. err afterlives pala haha.

Ginawa tayo ng ating "Creator" ng may sariling pag-iisip at pagdedesisyon. Tayong mga tao ang magdedesisyon kung anong meron (Diyos) o kung anong wala, base sa mga experiences natin at turo ng mga magulang/nauna sa atin.

Kung naniniwala tayo ng mayroong Diyos at alam natin all knowing sya at all powerfull e siguro naman maintindihan nya tayong mga nilalang nya. Maintindihan nya siguro yung mga Atheist. Ginawa niya tayo na may sariling pag iisip at paniniwala. Na-imagine ko yung scenario sa Heaven's gate. Diyos: "Ah atheist ka? well, f*** you! doon ka dagat-dagatang apoy. Boom! oh diyan ka". Hindi natin alam kung ano ang iniisip o paniniwala ng Diyos kasi wala tayo kakayahan. Kidding aside. Matalinhaga ang paniniwala sa isang/mga Diyos. Kahit yung mga eksperto nga sa relihiyon e hindi sila magkasundo e. Ang saken diyan e bibigyan ng Diyos ng merit yung mga nagawa mo dito sa lupa nung nabubuhay ka pa, labas yung paniniwala mo kung meron o wlang diyos. Kaya uagaliing maging mabuti sa kapwa mo period. O sya ang dami ko nang sinabi hahaha. Ikaw nalang bahala makipag-usap sa kanya pag dating mo dun

Ang lahat ng ito ay opinyon ko lamang po kaya pls. don't hate me haha. Be good to one another. Peace!

 

[murdoc999]

Why would your God be so worried of my beliefs?